Have you suffered from burnout, and how did you recover?
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
I had a major melt down years ago and I just walked away from a high paying prestigious job and started working in the construction field. Working outside and with my hands was very therapeutic! I still do programming but I may get hot on a project and spend night and day on it for anywhere from a week to a couple of months then I may not touch it for months. Last time I opened VS2010 was about a year ago, I also love embedded and haven't touched it in about 6 months. I have to admit though one of the reasons I've been so lax at programming is I've been traveling a lot and am a budding photographer and spend a lot of time with that. I learned a long time ago; "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting" Good luck Bjorn
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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I had a major melt down years ago and I just walked away from a high paying prestigious job and started working in the construction field. Working outside and with my hands was very therapeutic! I still do programming but I may get hot on a project and spend night and day on it for anywhere from a week to a couple of months then I may not touch it for months. Last time I opened VS2010 was about a year ago, I also love embedded and haven't touched it in about 6 months. I have to admit though one of the reasons I've been so lax at programming is I've been traveling a lot and am a budding photographer and spend a lot of time with that. I learned a long time ago; "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting" Good luck Bjorn
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Mike Hankey wrote:
I learned a long time ago; "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting"
That's one of the problems really - you get used to it, so you don't notice how much stress you are under until either you crack or are forced away from the source by other events. And because you are "coping" and doing the work you get more pressure put on you... I've never burnt out, but I didn't really how much stress I was working under all the time until I was forced not to work for four years by an accident. Now I monitor how much I'm doing and I am pretty much stress free. As a result, I gave up smoking, and hardly drink at all - where I was a 20~30 a day / wine box a night person when I was working for others.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Mike Hankey wrote:
I learned a long time ago; "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting"
That's one of the problems really - you get used to it, so you don't notice how much stress you are under until either you crack or are forced away from the source by other events. And because you are "coping" and doing the work you get more pressure put on you... I've never burnt out, but I didn't really how much stress I was working under all the time until I was forced not to work for four years by an accident. Now I monitor how much I'm doing and I am pretty much stress free. As a result, I gave up smoking, and hardly drink at all - where I was a 20~30 a day / wine box a night person when I was working for others.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
One of the reason for my leaving programming was that I was going through a VERY rough divorce and I thought if I gotta start over with nothing then I'm going to try to start out without the stress of the job. It still took me another 8 years to totally get away from my ex. About 4 years ago I just quit drinking, rarely drink now and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls. :) Been a long road but I don't worry about much any more and live a fairly stress free life. I always knew I was a bit of a loner but in the past few years have become self sufficient and prefer to be alone.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
That's a tough question and no easy answer. Some things I noticed about myself: Getting tired very quickly turned out to be due to eye strain - glasses are helping with that problem. Cloudy mind - I discovered a while back that drinking soy smoothies was affecting my mental clarity. That led to some other interesting self-diagnosis such as paying attention to pollen counts. My mood and clarity is also highly affected by B vitamins. It's amazing how much better I feel with some B vitamin supplements. BTW, B vitamin deficiency is definitely linked to nerve damage / issues. Psychologically, I find it really helpful to step back from my work and ask myself what is rewarding about it and what is making me miserable. A lot of times, the misery part can actually be improved by simply improving a process. I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy, especially when faced with the understandable occurrences of drudge work. For misery that can't be improved, I try to work with it in healthy ways -- prioritize it, confront it, deal with it first. Funny thing is, it always seems more miserable than it actually is: my mind creates a lot more suffering just thinking about doing some drudge work than the drudge work actually warrants. I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.) That's my 2c. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
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I work mainly as a consultant and that keeps me busy on a wide variety of projects, so I don't get burnt out these days. Before, when I was working as an employee, I had to change jobs every year or two (often inside the company) or I'd get to the point where I found other work. I sympathize with you. I don't think I could go back to working as a normal employee again. Ever. I need the challenge of new things to keep myself motivated.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I don't think I could go back to working as a normal employee again. Ever.
Agreed, and not just for the changing landscape of challenges, but also because I find I can avoid the majority of politics and useless meetings. And also because I can choose my working hours and environment to maximize productivity rather than be a servant of the clock, the boss, and the cubicle walls. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
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One of the reason for my leaving programming was that I was going through a VERY rough divorce and I thought if I gotta start over with nothing then I'm going to try to start out without the stress of the job. It still took me another 8 years to totally get away from my ex. About 4 years ago I just quit drinking, rarely drink now and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls. :) Been a long road but I don't worry about much any more and live a fairly stress free life. I always knew I was a bit of a loner but in the past few years have become self sufficient and prefer to be alone.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Mike Hankey wrote:
also stopped chasing fat girls
I never started: always worried I might catch 'em, and then what? :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Mike Hankey wrote:
also stopped chasing fat girls
I never started: always worried I might catch 'em, and then what? :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
OriginalGriff wrote:
I never started: always worried I might catch 'em, and then what?
I was always to drunk to catch them so didn't worry about that. :)
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
I never started: always worried I might catch 'em, and then what?
I was always to drunk to catch them so didn't worry about that. :)
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Oooh! Beer goggles![^] Nasty... :laugh: That's...bad news...very bad news[^] (NSF anyone with a working oesophagus X| )
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Oooh! Beer goggles![^] Nasty... :laugh: That's...bad news...very bad news[^] (NSF anyone with a working oesophagus X| )
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Beer goggles, makes a butt disappear don' it? :) It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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Beer goggles, makes a butt disappear don' it? :) It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
"And I've never gone to bed with an ugly women But I've sure woke up with a few."[^]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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"And I've never gone to bed with an ugly women But I've sure woke up with a few."[^]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Amen brother, still got both arms though. :)
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I don't think I could go back to working as a normal employee again. Ever.
Agreed, and not just for the changing landscape of challenges, but also because I find I can avoid the majority of politics and useless meetings. And also because I can choose my working hours and environment to maximize productivity rather than be a servant of the clock, the boss, and the cubicle walls. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
Well, choosing your working hours, etc. is a side benefit, but I found out the old saying is true: When you work for a company, you have one boss. When you work for yourself, every client is your boss. I can usually prioritize things and work around other activities, like going out with the wife in the middle of the day, etc. I can also get some work done late at night if I want, or take a long weekend off if I can schedule it. I also keep plenty of variety in my work. I don't multitask well, but I set aside blocks of time to work on various projects. That also keeps me from getting bored, burnt out, etc. And it's surprising, often I come up with the solution to one project while working on another one. Another thing I do is set aside several hours each week to "investigate." Maybe I'll pull out an old problem I never solved and work or think about it for half a day. Or perhaps go to the library and browse topics of interest. No specific goals, just to learn something and maybe advance myself a little. So far I've always found a direct use for everything I spent time on, so it has never been a waste of time.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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That's a tough question and no easy answer. Some things I noticed about myself: Getting tired very quickly turned out to be due to eye strain - glasses are helping with that problem. Cloudy mind - I discovered a while back that drinking soy smoothies was affecting my mental clarity. That led to some other interesting self-diagnosis such as paying attention to pollen counts. My mood and clarity is also highly affected by B vitamins. It's amazing how much better I feel with some B vitamin supplements. BTW, B vitamin deficiency is definitely linked to nerve damage / issues. Psychologically, I find it really helpful to step back from my work and ask myself what is rewarding about it and what is making me miserable. A lot of times, the misery part can actually be improved by simply improving a process. I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy, especially when faced with the understandable occurrences of drudge work. For misery that can't be improved, I try to work with it in healthy ways -- prioritize it, confront it, deal with it first. Funny thing is, it always seems more miserable than it actually is: my mind creates a lot more suffering just thinking about doing some drudge work than the drudge work actually warrants. I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.) That's my 2c. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
Marc Clifton wrote:
I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy
Same here. I've got two roles at work: principal UI developer on our products, and the DSJB: Departmental Shit-Job Boy. My side project, however, is an in-house tracing tool we use. I keep a list of new features, bug fixes, and so on for it. Whenever I need a break from the day-to-day grind, I work on the tracing tool a bit.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.)
I will forego the obvious and puerile pun for this observation: cats are :cool:.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Hi Bjorn, I'm really sorry to hear about your condition. I assume you've gotten a thorough neurological examination ? A medical diagnosis of what's going on with you ? While stress-related "burn-out" definitely has a variety of possible neurological, cognitive, and behavioral, side-effects, what you describe sounds more like a clinical medical syndrome. best wishes for your health, and peace of mind, Bill
“I have diligently numbered the days of pure and genuine happiness which have fallen to my lot: They amount to 14.” Abd-Ar Rahman III, Caliph of Cordoba, circa 950CE.
Thanks Bill. Yea I have. I've also suffered from migraines since I was a teenager, and they did several detailed studies (CAT scans, etc). So my problem is neurological in general. Now at 47 yrs luckily my migraines have almost gone away, but the burnout symptoms unfortunately have become chronic. It is possible there is an underlying cause for all this that can be found, some kind of chemical imbalance or similar, but it seems that doctors aren't skilled enough to find it. I do regular health checks and the numbers are always really good. Officially I am a really healthy subject, but that's certainly not how it feels. One thing that I lack is the ability to see when I push myself too hard, and that is probably what got me into this mess. There is no alarm in my body that goes off and makes me take a step back. When it comes to mental tasks its very subjective, so how can you know if you really reached your limit? But when I started measuring my heart rate while doing my usual cardio training, it turns out that I spend a great deal of time at heart rates that other people find intolerable. Those heart rates (+90% of HRmax) reliably lead to injury or general damage to the body. I always thought I was a high performer, above average in most things I do, when it turns out I'm probably of average intelligence and physique, but with an ability to push myself way beyond what is healthy. However, just telling myself to "take it easy" doesnt seem to matter anymore.
Bjorn
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I had a major melt down years ago and I just walked away from a high paying prestigious job and started working in the construction field. Working outside and with my hands was very therapeutic! I still do programming but I may get hot on a project and spend night and day on it for anywhere from a week to a couple of months then I may not touch it for months. Last time I opened VS2010 was about a year ago, I also love embedded and haven't touched it in about 6 months. I have to admit though one of the reasons I've been so lax at programming is I've been traveling a lot and am a budding photographer and spend a lot of time with that. I learned a long time ago; "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting" Good luck Bjorn
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Thanks Mike. I did something similar. I took three years off and built a farm in the country side. It was a very rewarding experience and I also felt a lot better, so obviously this is what I should continue doing. But I have no passion for it as I have with software development. It's a tough choice. Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
Bjorn
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That's a tough question and no easy answer. Some things I noticed about myself: Getting tired very quickly turned out to be due to eye strain - glasses are helping with that problem. Cloudy mind - I discovered a while back that drinking soy smoothies was affecting my mental clarity. That led to some other interesting self-diagnosis such as paying attention to pollen counts. My mood and clarity is also highly affected by B vitamins. It's amazing how much better I feel with some B vitamin supplements. BTW, B vitamin deficiency is definitely linked to nerve damage / issues. Psychologically, I find it really helpful to step back from my work and ask myself what is rewarding about it and what is making me miserable. A lot of times, the misery part can actually be improved by simply improving a process. I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy, especially when faced with the understandable occurrences of drudge work. For misery that can't be improved, I try to work with it in healthy ways -- prioritize it, confront it, deal with it first. Funny thing is, it always seems more miserable than it actually is: my mind creates a lot more suffering just thinking about doing some drudge work than the drudge work actually warrants. I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.) That's my 2c. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
Thanks Marc, I've experimented with staying away from different foods, but it doesn't seem to matter. I wish there was a safe drug that just zapped away the metal clouds. I rarely ever drink alcohol by the way, because I hate how it makes the mental clouds even thicker. Uppers like caffeine doesn't help either, except cocaine, but that would ruin my health pretty quickly. It's very clear that I should get out of software development, but I just don't know of anything that is as exciting.
Bjorn
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Thanks Mike. I did something similar. I took three years off and built a farm in the country side. It was a very rewarding experience and I also felt a lot better, so obviously this is what I should continue doing. But I have no passion for it as I have with software development. It's a tough choice. Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
Bjorn
I completely understand, it gets in your blood. I will never quite programming but am doing it for myself now, no deadlines, no bosses. Good luck to ya!
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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One of the reason for my leaving programming was that I was going through a VERY rough divorce and I thought if I gotta start over with nothing then I'm going to try to start out without the stress of the job. It still took me another 8 years to totally get away from my ex. About 4 years ago I just quit drinking, rarely drink now and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls. :) Been a long road but I don't worry about much any more and live a fairly stress free life. I always knew I was a bit of a loner but in the past few years have become self sufficient and prefer to be alone.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Mike Hankey wrote:
About 4 years ago I just quit drinking ... and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls.
If it weren't for drunk fat girls I wouldn't have had much of a sex life! :sigh:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Beer goggles, makes a butt disappear don' it? :) It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Mike Hankey wrote:
It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
I was going to say after 12 o'clock. Then again that would have been after a 12 pack. They all look better at closing time. :-D
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mike Hankey wrote:
It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
I was going to say after 12 o'clock. Then again that would have been after a 12 pack. They all look better at closing time. :-D
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
I was going to say after 12 o'clock. Then again that would have been after a 12 pack.
They all look better at closing time. :-DAgreed
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
