Have you suffered from burnout, and how did you recover?
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I had a major melt down years ago and I just walked away from a high paying prestigious job and started working in the construction field. Working outside and with my hands was very therapeutic! I still do programming but I may get hot on a project and spend night and day on it for anywhere from a week to a couple of months then I may not touch it for months. Last time I opened VS2010 was about a year ago, I also love embedded and haven't touched it in about 6 months. I have to admit though one of the reasons I've been so lax at programming is I've been traveling a lot and am a budding photographer and spend a lot of time with that. I learned a long time ago; "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting" Good luck Bjorn
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Thanks Mike. I did something similar. I took three years off and built a farm in the country side. It was a very rewarding experience and I also felt a lot better, so obviously this is what I should continue doing. But I have no passion for it as I have with software development. It's a tough choice. Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
Bjorn
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That's a tough question and no easy answer. Some things I noticed about myself: Getting tired very quickly turned out to be due to eye strain - glasses are helping with that problem. Cloudy mind - I discovered a while back that drinking soy smoothies was affecting my mental clarity. That led to some other interesting self-diagnosis such as paying attention to pollen counts. My mood and clarity is also highly affected by B vitamins. It's amazing how much better I feel with some B vitamin supplements. BTW, B vitamin deficiency is definitely linked to nerve damage / issues. Psychologically, I find it really helpful to step back from my work and ask myself what is rewarding about it and what is making me miserable. A lot of times, the misery part can actually be improved by simply improving a process. I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy, especially when faced with the understandable occurrences of drudge work. For misery that can't be improved, I try to work with it in healthy ways -- prioritize it, confront it, deal with it first. Funny thing is, it always seems more miserable than it actually is: my mind creates a lot more suffering just thinking about doing some drudge work than the drudge work actually warrants. I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.) That's my 2c. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
Thanks Marc, I've experimented with staying away from different foods, but it doesn't seem to matter. I wish there was a safe drug that just zapped away the metal clouds. I rarely ever drink alcohol by the way, because I hate how it makes the mental clouds even thicker. Uppers like caffeine doesn't help either, except cocaine, but that would ruin my health pretty quickly. It's very clear that I should get out of software development, but I just don't know of anything that is as exciting.
Bjorn
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Thanks Mike. I did something similar. I took three years off and built a farm in the country side. It was a very rewarding experience and I also felt a lot better, so obviously this is what I should continue doing. But I have no passion for it as I have with software development. It's a tough choice. Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
Bjorn
I completely understand, it gets in your blood. I will never quite programming but am doing it for myself now, no deadlines, no bosses. Good luck to ya!
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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One of the reason for my leaving programming was that I was going through a VERY rough divorce and I thought if I gotta start over with nothing then I'm going to try to start out without the stress of the job. It still took me another 8 years to totally get away from my ex. About 4 years ago I just quit drinking, rarely drink now and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls. :) Been a long road but I don't worry about much any more and live a fairly stress free life. I always knew I was a bit of a loner but in the past few years have become self sufficient and prefer to be alone.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Mike Hankey wrote:
About 4 years ago I just quit drinking ... and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls.
If it weren't for drunk fat girls I wouldn't have had much of a sex life! :sigh:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Beer goggles, makes a butt disappear don' it? :) It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
Mike Hankey wrote:
It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
I was going to say after 12 o'clock. Then again that would have been after a 12 pack. They all look better at closing time. :-D
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mike Hankey wrote:
It's amazing how much better they look after a 12 pack.
I was going to say after 12 o'clock. Then again that would have been after a 12 pack. They all look better at closing time. :-D
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
I was going to say after 12 o'clock. Then again that would have been after a 12 pack.
They all look better at closing time. :-DAgreed
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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Mike Hankey wrote:
About 4 years ago I just quit drinking ... and quit smoking, also stopped chasing fat girls.
If it weren't for drunk fat girls I wouldn't have had much of a sex life! :sigh:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
If it weren't for drunk fat girls I wouldn't have had much of a sex life!
I've had my quota too!
As I grow older I've found that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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Thanks Mike. I did something similar. I took three years off and built a farm in the country side. It was a very rewarding experience and I also felt a lot better, so obviously this is what I should continue doing. But I have no passion for it as I have with software development. It's a tough choice. Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
Bjorn
bjoernen wrote:
Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
This is exactly what I'm going through right now. Not with farming, but general physical activity as well. It's a tough paradox to be intelligent, we want mental stimulation, but we can't reach our full intellectual height without taking care of the body as well since that's what helps give us the intelligence in the first place.
Jeremy Falcon
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That's a tough question and no easy answer. Some things I noticed about myself: Getting tired very quickly turned out to be due to eye strain - glasses are helping with that problem. Cloudy mind - I discovered a while back that drinking soy smoothies was affecting my mental clarity. That led to some other interesting self-diagnosis such as paying attention to pollen counts. My mood and clarity is also highly affected by B vitamins. It's amazing how much better I feel with some B vitamin supplements. BTW, B vitamin deficiency is definitely linked to nerve damage / issues. Psychologically, I find it really helpful to step back from my work and ask myself what is rewarding about it and what is making me miserable. A lot of times, the misery part can actually be improved by simply improving a process. I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy, especially when faced with the understandable occurrences of drudge work. For misery that can't be improved, I try to work with it in healthy ways -- prioritize it, confront it, deal with it first. Funny thing is, it always seems more miserable than it actually is: my mind creates a lot more suffering just thinking about doing some drudge work than the drudge work actually warrants. I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.) That's my 2c. Marc
Latest Articles - APOD Scraper and Hunt the Wumpus Short video on Membrane Computing Hunt the Wumpus (A HOPE video)
Marc Clifton wrote:
Cloudy mind - I discovered a while back that drinking soy smoothies was affecting my mental clarity.
Not having a clean source of *healthy* carbs will do that. That's why the b vitamins help, so will some starchy veggies like carrots and potatoes. Just don't overdo it. Also, one of the things that really helped me was to give up caffeine. That sh*t is pure evil.
Jeremy Falcon
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I also have at least one interesting personal side project that keeps my mind and soul happy
Same here. I've got two roles at work: principal UI developer on our products, and the DSJB: Departmental Shit-Job Boy. My side project, however, is an in-house tracing tool we use. I keep a list of new features, bug fixes, and so on for it. Whenever I need a break from the day-to-day grind, I work on the tracing tool a bit.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I have a cat. Provides a lot of entertainment and fun (so does the gf, but not in the same way as the cat.)
I will forego the obvious and puerile pun for this observation: cats are :cool:.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Whenever I need a break from the day-to-day grind, I work on the tracing tool a bit
Ah so that is what my code generator is, a side project for when I need a break from drudgery.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
Stop people pleasing and have boundaries. At the end of the day you career suffers more from burnouts than it does from not having them if it makes any sense. We are our own worst enemies at the end of the day. The difference between you (having burnouts) and the next person (not having burnouts) is you.
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." << please vote!! >>
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
bjoernen wrote:
I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it
Seriously? Religion. Divine healing + omnipotent being caring for your future = no stress It's free, but it's not cheap. Still, there are amusing moments: "You missed the deadline!" "God is in control." "The client's not happy." "Well, that's because he's not a Christian. Christians rejoice in trials." People at work aren't sure how to treat me, since I have no stress even if overloaded, or if urgent problems arise.
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly
I get this a lot, I thought it was just part of not being young any more. It sounds like you need some way of knowing when to stop, either a partner who will enforce 'no more than X hours/day' or some kind of deliberate routine whereby you stop at 5pm and don't touch 'work' again that day, even if you 'want' to carry on.
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
The first time I burned out I started my own business as a fishing guide. About five years afterwards, money starting getting tight, so I took what I thought was going to be a temporary gig writing software again. I loved this temporary gig so much that I became the team lead - and they pay me pretty good too. Perhaps, it's just a change of scenery and perspective you need. It worked wonders for me. "I am rarely happier than when spending entire day programming my computer to perform automatically a task that it would otherwise take me a good ten seconds to do by hand." - Douglas Adams
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
After 30+ years in software development, I can honestly say, the day you retire, and become a greeter at Walmart, is when you recover from burnout!
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Thanks Mike. I did something similar. I took three years off and built a farm in the country side. It was a very rewarding experience and I also felt a lot better, so obviously this is what I should continue doing. But I have no passion for it as I have with software development. It's a tough choice. Farming makes me healthy but bored, programming makes me unhealthy but stimulated.
Bjorn
That's my dream. Have my own farm, work with soil out there; have my office inside and work in it other times. I may be wrong but I expect to have enough free time from both of them to satisfy the other. You already have the experience, so what do you think? Would that be an alternative for you or am I dreaming too much? "The primary trait of a good programmer is laziness. Nobody works harder to do nothing than a good programmer." - MehGerbil
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Thanks Marc, I've experimented with staying away from different foods, but it doesn't seem to matter. I wish there was a safe drug that just zapped away the metal clouds. I rarely ever drink alcohol by the way, because I hate how it makes the mental clouds even thicker. Uppers like caffeine doesn't help either, except cocaine, but that would ruin my health pretty quickly. It's very clear that I should get out of software development, but I just don't know of anything that is as exciting.
Bjorn
Hi Bjorn, If you have mental cloudiness and found that cocaine helped then you might want to check out adrenal fatigue and how to fix it.
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
Hi Bjorn, Some suggestions of things to try: 1. Remove Nutrasweet from your diet. Many people are allergic but don't realize it. Maybe 12%+. I'm highly allergic to it. Gives me severe headaches. It is chemically similar to rattlesnake venom. 2. Remove all artificial sweetners and additives from your diet. They often cause all sorts of weird problems. 3. Try rotating different food groups into and out of your diet each week. I have a theory that some people have difficulty metabolizing certain proteins, amino acids, etc. and suspect that because they are not properly metabolized they then act to in effect toxify a person's metabolism. 4. Check for some sleeper type infections/problems such as Lyme disease which is often misdiagnosed. 5. Have a heavy metal and toxic compound screen. You might have been exposed to some in the past. And it can take many years before the symptoms manifest. 6. Check for severe sleep apnea. Do you wake up in the middle of the night for no apparent reason? Do you have trouble sleeping? Your biological clock may also be out of wack with the normal day-night cycle on this planet. 7. Pushing your body beyond it's limits will cause it to complain more and more. Determine where you need to be to stay within your body's limitations and develop a daily/weekly schedule to remain in that zone. 8. Learn to meditate. Helps the body with stress. Almost any method is good to start. Zen is one of the best but is also the hardest. But well worth it. 9. How much time do you spend in Nature? The body came from Nature and needs regular communing with it. 10. Experiment and determine what activities cause more symptoms (may be days later) or less symptoms. Then avoid those that cause and do more of those that nurture. I'm not sure that you have burnout. Sounds more like your body is over stressed and thus complaining. And needs to heal. Burnout typically occurs during prolonged high stress, low sleep, bad diet, no exercise, no Nature periods when the body becomes exhausted and the adrenal glands and other hormones become exhausted. Best recovery procedures are to withdraw from the combat situation and rest and recover. If you find that a vacation really helps then this is highly likely that it's burnout/over stress. Best wishes, - Grant PS: If you find that you can concentrate on certain things without headache and symptoms but not on some things like programming then it's probably psychological burnout where you're really sick and tired of the same old
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I've suffered multiple times, and I'm curious to learn how others dealt with it. Recovery programs? Medication? Change of profession? Change of attitude? Shrink sessions? I should have switched profession a long time ago, but my biggest passion is still software development, and it is hard to give it up. I now have permanent damage to my nervous system. Any kind of mental effort makes me tired very quickly, and my mind is constantly "cloudy" without ability to think very clearly. Add to this the phantom sensations of ants running over my forehead and similar nerve issues. I have lived with this for 10 years. First time it happened I took three months off. Second time I needed 9 months of professional rehabilitation. In those days I worked for a consultant company, no surprise. Nowadays I run my own one man show, pretty much doing what ever I please each day, but I still keep running into the ground, so this affliction never seems to go away. Sorry about the depressing topic, and I'm not looking for sympathy, on the balance I have a very good life. But I am curious how other people have dealt with this. I'm sure it is more common than most people think.
Bjorn
I showed your post to my wife who instantly said - "Thyroid". My wife has the symptoms of mind being cloudy, inability to think clearly and inability to exert mental effort as well. In her case she doesn't have a thyroid gland (cancer) and has to rely on medication. These symptoms appear when the thyroid is too low. Perhaps you need to have a thyroid test. Good luck. Murray
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Thanks Bill. Yea I have. I've also suffered from migraines since I was a teenager, and they did several detailed studies (CAT scans, etc). So my problem is neurological in general. Now at 47 yrs luckily my migraines have almost gone away, but the burnout symptoms unfortunately have become chronic. It is possible there is an underlying cause for all this that can be found, some kind of chemical imbalance or similar, but it seems that doctors aren't skilled enough to find it. I do regular health checks and the numbers are always really good. Officially I am a really healthy subject, but that's certainly not how it feels. One thing that I lack is the ability to see when I push myself too hard, and that is probably what got me into this mess. There is no alarm in my body that goes off and makes me take a step back. When it comes to mental tasks its very subjective, so how can you know if you really reached your limit? But when I started measuring my heart rate while doing my usual cardio training, it turns out that I spend a great deal of time at heart rates that other people find intolerable. Those heart rates (+90% of HRmax) reliably lead to injury or general damage to the body. I always thought I was a high performer, above average in most things I do, when it turns out I'm probably of average intelligence and physique, but with an ability to push myself way beyond what is healthy. However, just telling myself to "take it easy" doesnt seem to matter anymore.
Bjorn
Look up Rudyard Kipling's "Hymn of Breaking Strain". Everyone will break, if subjected to enough stress. The amount we each can tolerate is different, and it doesn't seem to matter whether it's self-inflicted or from the environment. Most think we're above average, half of us aren't. Maybe also read / listen to "Undoing Depression" by Cr. Richard Conner. The book is as much about sudden and chronic stress as it is about anything else. One thing I noticed when doing Cardio with a desired heart rate, was that when I listened to good comedy, or watched BlackAdder, the machine would have to dial up the resistance 10-20% to get my heart rate to 130. Quite literally, when my stress went down, I got more work done. It might not feel productive to go for a half hour walk instead of spending that time bashing away at an intractable problem, but do it. I've recently come out the other side of a 3 year long stressful (toxic co-worker) situation. It wasn't just the 3 years lost, it probably shortened my life by an additional year or two. Never again.