The guy who knows
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If management sides with an idiot and/or a know-it all, and your complaints go unanswered/unheard, then you have to make two decisions, continue to work in that environment or leave. I, usually leave. edit: luckily, I have had to leave only twice in my career and it was for the better.
Slacker007 wrote:
If management sides with an idiot and/or a know-it all,
I'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Jeremy Falcon
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Rage wrote:
OK, my mistake, then I have probably misunderstood the point of the Internet.
Touché! :laugh:
Rage wrote:
For that part, it is OK to let a computer-illiterate handle database development with worldwide multi-location deployment, cross-application data exchange, interface to ERP, etc...
BS sells man. Same thing with most things in life, like with magic health pills and fad diets. Take the new next thing magic pill that's never worked before while avoiding the fact you don't need the pill at all. Sometimes, it's just how about how you present your point and the energy behind it. Like when it comes to sales, people buy crap from people they like. The crap they're buying really doesn't matter. A good salesman can sell ice to an Eskimo because his customers like him and people listen to people they like and vice versa.
Jeremy Falcon
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:-D :laugh: No, but now I know a place to avoid, should I want to leave here. :rolleyes:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
Been exactly where you are, the Form is done, everyone thinks it's a five minute job to wire it up! :|
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Slacker007 wrote:
If management sides with an idiot and/or a know-it all,
I'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Like you? ;) No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Like you? ;) No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
Slacker007 wrote:
Like you?
Gotta work on your social skills man.
Slacker007 wrote:
No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
You have to assume you're a know-it-all to actually buy into the fact someone you don't like knows nothing. There are different types of intelligence, and memorizing things from a book does not make you experienced or all-knowing.
Jeremy Falcon
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Then I am doomed: I am a social bitch. People would not take gold from me, even if I would give it away for free.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
Don't be so hard on yourself man, I'd be more than happy to take gold for free from you... because that's how much I care.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
'm willing to bet this "know-it-all" guy is just really outgoing. Maybe charismatic. Not saying it's smart or right, but I'm willing to bet he's a talker and can connect with people.
Like you? ;) No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
Slacker007 wrote:
No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
And I'm not trying to say the some know-it-all tech type guy knows his tech. But he knows how to talk and voice his opinion. Which counts for something, especially when speaking to people that don't know what we do and have no way to trust a coder that doesn't speak up.
Jeremy Falcon
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Slacker007 wrote:
No thanks. Not for me. It has been my experience that the know it all, really doesn't know anything.
And I'm not trying to say the some know-it-all tech type guy knows his tech. But he knows how to talk and voice his opinion. Which counts for something, especially when speaking to people that don't know what we do and have no way to trust a coder that doesn't speak up.
Jeremy Falcon
Sounds like a struck a nerve. :)
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Sounds like a struck a nerve. :)
Nope. It's called communicating. Try it.
Jeremy Falcon
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I am currently having issues with a guy at work who think he's a great programmer and knows everything about what is the latest and greatest technology, but alas, is not. I work in mechanical development, so pretty much anybody who knows how to write an Excel macro is Bill Gates here, just for you to get the picture. As a former embedded and desktop coder, I am lightyears ahead of this. Now these people, and that particular colleague, get sometimes involved in SW programming, when they create tools helping the mechanical design or write interfaces between internal systems and matlab for instance. And this leads to terribly poor technology choices, oversized, or obsolete before they were born, or so terribly programmed that the code cannot be maintained. The programming "guru" however has powerful persuasion skills, so he drives management, who have not the start of a clue (otherwise they would have known they need professionals to design software), into believing that what he does is the right thing to do - not intentionally, he is genuinely persuaded he is a know-how holder :~ And this is eating up my patience. I am not directly involved in what he does, that is why I don't do anything about it, but I attend some meetings sometimes where I just could bang my head on the desk. To give you a feeling, it is as if you were looking over someone's shoulder and he would copy and paste 10 times the same code instead of making a for loop : it works, but gnngnnngn it is just plain wrong. :sigh:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
Unlike you, he knows to leave room for improvement. :-D
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Been exactly where you are, the Form is done, everyone thinks it's a five minute job to wire it up! :|
glennPattonPUB wrote:
everyone thinks it's a five minute job to wire it up!
So true, I don't whether to laugh or cry. "Isn't done yet?" :mad:
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
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Why not take one of his apps, write it correctly and present it to management as they way it should be done if a professional programmer were able to do it. As I used to have in my sig: if you think a professional is expensive, wait till you try an amateur.
mark merrens wrote:
Why not take one of his apps, write it correctly and present it to management as they way it should be done if a professional programmer were able to do it.
Because making an enemy of someone who is very persuasive to management is an extremely bad idea. Better, improve something, and show it to the guy himself. Remember to smile and not to talk to him like he's an idiot. It's always preferable to open a discussion, rather than start a war. [edited a typo]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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mark merrens wrote:
Why not take one of his apps, write it correctly and present it to management as they way it should be done if a professional programmer were able to do it.
Because making an enemy of someone who is very persuasive to management is an extremely bad idea. Better, improve something, and show it to the guy himself. Remember to smile and not to talk to him like he's an idiot. It's always preferable to open a discussion, rather than start a war. [edited a typo]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I disagree: once you show management that he is not what he says he is, his influence will rapidly wane. If you show it to him, he'll just steal it and the credit. Besides, how boring would life be without a few enemies.
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I disagree: once you show management that he is not what he says he is, his influence will rapidly wane. If you show it to him, he'll just steal it and the credit. Besides, how boring would life be without a few enemies.
mark merrens wrote:
Besides, how boring would life be without a few enemies.
So people with split personalities are never bored? :laugh:
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I am currently having issues with a guy at work who think he's a great programmer and knows everything about what is the latest and greatest technology, but alas, is not. I work in mechanical development, so pretty much anybody who knows how to write an Excel macro is Bill Gates here, just for you to get the picture. As a former embedded and desktop coder, I am lightyears ahead of this. Now these people, and that particular colleague, get sometimes involved in SW programming, when they create tools helping the mechanical design or write interfaces between internal systems and matlab for instance. And this leads to terribly poor technology choices, oversized, or obsolete before they were born, or so terribly programmed that the code cannot be maintained. The programming "guru" however has powerful persuasion skills, so he drives management, who have not the start of a clue (otherwise they would have known they need professionals to design software), into believing that what he does is the right thing to do - not intentionally, he is genuinely persuaded he is a know-how holder :~ And this is eating up my patience. I am not directly involved in what he does, that is why I don't do anything about it, but I attend some meetings sometimes where I just could bang my head on the desk. To give you a feeling, it is as if you were looking over someone's shoulder and he would copy and paste 10 times the same code instead of making a for loop : it works, but gnngnnngn it is just plain wrong. :sigh:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
you could challenge him? Probably won't work, but it will be hell of fun ;P . So in the meeting it would go something like this...
You: Really? Copy / Paste N times. I would have done this in a for loop.
He: [brief moment of silence] for loop? yes, of course, but [insert really dumb reason for not using for loop here]
You: Oh, I didn't have that [that really dumb reason] problem. Look. [show code en let it run]
He: ... uhm ...
You: [start talking real development jargon that you know he doesn't understand.]V.
(MQOTD rules and previous solutions) -
I disagree: once you show management that he is not what he says he is, his influence will rapidly wane. If you show it to him, he'll just steal it and the credit. Besides, how boring would life be without a few enemies.
mark merrens wrote:
once you show management that he is not what he says he is, his influence will rapidly wane.
That's highly unlikely. What is more likely to happen is that they will talk to him about what you've shown them, and he will be, shall we say, "not entirely ecstatic" about your going to them. He will take your action as an attack against him, and do everything he can to get back at you. And rightly so. If he is the de facto go-to guy, you make your suggestions to him first. When did going over someone's head without talking to him first become acceptable behaviour? In my book, it's not the least bit acceptable. If you went straight to his boss without seeing him first, you'd deserve everything he stuck to you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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mark merrens wrote:
once you show management that he is not what he says he is, his influence will rapidly wane.
That's highly unlikely. What is more likely to happen is that they will talk to him about what you've shown them, and he will be, shall we say, "not entirely ecstatic" about your going to them. He will take your action as an attack against him, and do everything he can to get back at you. And rightly so. If he is the de facto go-to guy, you make your suggestions to him first. When did going over someone's head without talking to him first become acceptable behaviour? In my book, it's not the least bit acceptable. If you went straight to his boss without seeing him first, you'd deserve everything he stuck to you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I am currently having issues with a guy at work who think he's a great programmer and knows everything about what is the latest and greatest technology, but alas, is not. I work in mechanical development, so pretty much anybody who knows how to write an Excel macro is Bill Gates here, just for you to get the picture. As a former embedded and desktop coder, I am lightyears ahead of this. Now these people, and that particular colleague, get sometimes involved in SW programming, when they create tools helping the mechanical design or write interfaces between internal systems and matlab for instance. And this leads to terribly poor technology choices, oversized, or obsolete before they were born, or so terribly programmed that the code cannot be maintained. The programming "guru" however has powerful persuasion skills, so he drives management, who have not the start of a clue (otherwise they would have known they need professionals to design software), into believing that what he does is the right thing to do - not intentionally, he is genuinely persuaded he is a know-how holder :~ And this is eating up my patience. I am not directly involved in what he does, that is why I don't do anything about it, but I attend some meetings sometimes where I just could bang my head on the desk. To give you a feeling, it is as if you were looking over someone's shoulder and he would copy and paste 10 times the same code instead of making a for loop : it works, but gnngnnngn it is just plain wrong. :sigh:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
I have a similar thing going on right now. I just let him have all the rope and he is slowly hanging himself. 3 months behind on what should have been a one month project, and that's generous. With the stuff he isn't directly responsible for I just ignore his loud and arrogant mouthyness and tell the support people to do it my way. And I was right. Problem is now fixed for the customer. Main thing is don't get angry, and don't be afraid to give people like this rope, to give them a little shove towards the cliff edge. Have your own app written in preparation, and when his crashes and burns just show yours to management and tell them you wrote it in the evenings just for fun.
Sign a petition calling for the boycott of Israel until it returns to its legal 1967 borders.
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mark merrens wrote:
once you show management that he is not what he says he is, his influence will rapidly wane.
That's highly unlikely. What is more likely to happen is that they will talk to him about what you've shown them, and he will be, shall we say, "not entirely ecstatic" about your going to them. He will take your action as an attack against him, and do everything he can to get back at you. And rightly so. If he is the de facto go-to guy, you make your suggestions to him first. When did going over someone's head without talking to him first become acceptable behaviour? In my book, it's not the least bit acceptable. If you went straight to his boss without seeing him first, you'd deserve everything he stuck to you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Not over his head, around him. Not the same thing.
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I am currently having issues with a guy at work who think he's a great programmer and knows everything about what is the latest and greatest technology, but alas, is not. I work in mechanical development, so pretty much anybody who knows how to write an Excel macro is Bill Gates here, just for you to get the picture. As a former embedded and desktop coder, I am lightyears ahead of this. Now these people, and that particular colleague, get sometimes involved in SW programming, when they create tools helping the mechanical design or write interfaces between internal systems and matlab for instance. And this leads to terribly poor technology choices, oversized, or obsolete before they were born, or so terribly programmed that the code cannot be maintained. The programming "guru" however has powerful persuasion skills, so he drives management, who have not the start of a clue (otherwise they would have known they need professionals to design software), into believing that what he does is the right thing to do - not intentionally, he is genuinely persuaded he is a know-how holder :~ And this is eating up my patience. I am not directly involved in what he does, that is why I don't do anything about it, but I attend some meetings sometimes where I just could bang my head on the desk. To give you a feeling, it is as if you were looking over someone's shoulder and he would copy and paste 10 times the same code instead of making a for loop : it works, but gnngnnngn it is just plain wrong. :sigh:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
Management are there to manage the business - and therefore they want stuff done now, cheaply and right. They don't give a toss about whether it is in C# or VB6, using Access or Oracle. They just want a solution. If someone offers them a solution, and it works, then as far as they are concerned, job done, tick the box, take the bonus at xmas. So, you need a way to tell them that the solutions being produced are only good in the short term (assuming that is the case - what is the cost of maintenance of the badly written code - how often does it need to be changed?) It's all well and good to see SW being hacked together and die a little inside when it is, but if it provides a working, cost effective solution to the business then there's nothing you can do about it - because the business doesn't care. For example: Business needs a front end program to write some values to the serial port to change some settings on a machine. You look at it and propose a solution with some base classes for serial communication, a base "Machine" class that can be inherited and extended for different machine types, a Xaml front end that will scale for different devices, and a Db back end to provide Machine descriptions to dynamically build the GUI for different machine types. it will be written in C# .Net with SQL Server back end, using Agile methodologies with daily scrums and peer programming. TFS will be used for both source control and task management. Your colleague knocks something up in MS Access overnight, with everything hard coded for the one machine. The code is illegible, uncommented and about as efficient as a chocolate kettle. Lets say your solution would cost $10,000 and his cost $1,000 The company could write another 10 of the crap solutions, from scratch, for the cost of the flexible solution. If they anticipate adding a new front end monthly then over a year (ignoring any costs involved in your system setting up a new machine) the cost of both systems is equal. You see what I am getting at? crap software is not necessarily a bad thing for a business!
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