common core math
-
Here in Arizona and many other places. It has actually become a political campaign issue.
Since when politicians new about math anything? Poor kids...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
-
Here's a post about the merits of it[^], or at least why it's not really that bad. tl;dr version: it's basically the way everyone figures out change. Or in other words, it's preparing them for their likely future life as a McD clerk. :)
TTFN - Kent
Kent Sharkey wrote:
it's basically the way everyone figures out change
Except for that it isn't.
-
Kent Sharkey wrote:
it's basically the way everyone figures out change
Except for that it isn't.
I dunno, if I had to figure out 1000-995, I don't think I'd be carrying any 9s. I'm not saying it's a good system, I just don't think it's as crazy as some people are making it out to be.
TTFN - Kent
-
Here's a post about the merits of it[^], or at least why it's not really that bad. tl;dr version: it's basically the way everyone figures out change. Or in other words, it's preparing them for their likely future life as a McD clerk. :)
TTFN - Kent
Excuse me, but RUBBISH...I was good with math when was young (I'm still not that bad) and I do understand numbers - it's not the way I ever done things...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
-
Here's a post about the merits of it[^], or at least why it's not really that bad. tl;dr version: it's basically the way everyone figures out change. Or in other words, it's preparing them for their likely future life as a McD clerk. :)
TTFN - Kent
Kent Sharkey wrote:
Here's a post about the merits of it[^], or at least why it's not really that bad.
I see how using the base as a reference point is a good thing for mental math; I do that already. But they way they implemented it is just retarded. In the case of
325 - 38, why not just do something more like325 - 40 + 2to get the answer? Or hell even(325 - 25) - 40 + 25 + 2? You get the benefit of it being easier mentally without all the extra crappy steps.Jeremy Falcon
-
Kent Sharkey wrote:
Here's a post about the merits of it[^], or at least why it's not really that bad.
I see how using the base as a reference point is a good thing for mental math; I do that already. But they way they implemented it is just retarded. In the case of
325 - 38, why not just do something more like325 - 40 + 2to get the answer? Or hell even(325 - 25) - 40 + 25 + 2? You get the benefit of it being easier mentally without all the extra crappy steps.Jeremy Falcon
Yeah, that would work for me as well (although that first solution looks to me pretty much common core, just reversed). I suspect this all grew out of some PhD in Education writing their thesis on, "Why Johnny can't carry a 9". Then (as is often the case), they choose the worst solution.
TTFN - Kent
-
Can anyone really explain to me what this is all about? So far it seems to be a bunch of hoopla that makes things harder and not better. In all fairness I don't know much about it how all works, but when I see something like this[^] I have to wonder what was being smoked when they came up with it.
Jeremy Falcon
My kid was taught lattice multiplication in the common core ciriculum, a technique some 700 years old. It required the abiliy to draw neatly, something my 3rd/4th grader could not do (neither can I) and he got the wrong answer 8-9 times out of 10,because of this inability to draw neatly. Doing long multiplication the tradional way he got the right answer 8-9 times out of ten. When I queried his teacher about this rediculous method, she replied "Gee, I don't really understand it either, but I'm required to do this now.". :wtf: :mad:
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
-
Can anyone really explain to me what this is all about? So far it seems to be a bunch of hoopla that makes things harder and not better. In all fairness I don't know much about it how all works, but when I see something like this[^] I have to wonder what was being smoked when they came up with it.
Jeremy Falcon
My son's just started 6th grade. We are constantly emailing his math teacher with WTF's. He constantly writes back, "Yes, this new way is confusing, but..."
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
-
My son's just started 6th grade. We are constantly emailing his math teacher with WTF's. He constantly writes back, "Yes, this new way is confusing, but..."
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
They're teaching this in grade six? :confused: Doesn't that mean that they're now trying to override the way they already learned? Then that definitely doesn't make sense.
TTFN - Kent
-
They're teaching this in grade six? :confused: Doesn't that mean that they're now trying to override the way they already learned? Then that definitely doesn't make sense.
TTFN - Kent
No one said it made sense
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
-
They're teaching this in grade six? :confused: Doesn't that mean that they're now trying to override the way they already learned? Then that definitely doesn't make sense.
TTFN - Kent
Kent Sharkey wrote:
Doesn't that mean that they're now trying to override the way they already learned?
Yes. One of the biggest problems in the US is the constantly changing curriculum requirements. This means that what you taught in 6th grade might be re-taught in 7th, or that the new 7th grader is expected to have been taught something different in 6th grade as a the basis for what they are going to learn in 7th grade. My son, who was getting a math-teaching degree at SUNY New Paltz, explains that the curriculum can literally change 2 or 2 times in a school year. Furthermore, because of "No child left behind" and other rubbish (and we can't blame Bush, the tenets of NCLB goes back to the 50's, if not earlier actually) the teacher MUST teach to the curriculum, paced at whatever some bureaucrat decided, because the teacher is graded on how the kids score, so teaching does nothing more than attempt to teach how to pass a test. Every teacher I've talked with hates this system, but what do you expect from a curriculum that was decided in a national conference where all the decision makers were business people, and only one, yes one, I kid you not, teacher was invited to said conference. This country is so FUBAR. Sadly, when I talked to a couple college kids from France, they say their educational system is even worse!!! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming
-
Can anyone really explain to me what this is all about? So far it seems to be a bunch of hoopla that makes things harder and not better. In all fairness I don't know much about it how all works, but when I see something like this[^] I have to wonder what was being smoked when they came up with it.
Jeremy Falcon
Well maybe it's good for exposing kids to different techniques for doing calculations, especially if they want to do sums in their head, as there isn't one perfect easy method for every sum (with the obvious exception of using a calculator). It's better knowing a few methods of reaching the answer and choosing the best one, rather than knowing only one method and attempting to use it for everything. With the example from Kent Sharkey's link
325 - 38, in my head I would do this:38 + 2 = 40 //add 2 to make subtraction easier on my feeble mind
40 - 25 = 15 // use the 25 from 325 and subtract
300 - 15 = 285 // take that away from the remaining 300
285 + 2 = 287 // restore the 2 that I tacked on earlierMaybe it's a little strange, but as I don't do a lot of mental arithmetic I adjust the numbers so I can add or subtract easier while keeping the quantity of intermediate numbers I'll have to remember to a minimum. I also like to do division in my head in a similar fashion, but that's more recursive and to get an accurate answer I have to remember a bunch of numbers along the way, probably best just to use a calculator.
-
Can anyone really explain to me what this is all about? So far it seems to be a bunch of hoopla that makes things harder and not better. In all fairness I don't know much about it how all works, but when I see something like this[^] I have to wonder what was being smoked when they came up with it.
Jeremy Falcon
I was going to pipe up with the same explanation that everyone else did, It's a good way to do subtraction in your head. I learned that and more as a child. The common core doesn't seem that weird to me, but it sucks that they don't have any physical materials to work with like I did. For example this is one way I learned multiplication: Checkerboard[^] This is what I worked with for addition: Bead frame[^]
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
-
Well maybe it's good for exposing kids to different techniques for doing calculations, especially if they want to do sums in their head, as there isn't one perfect easy method for every sum (with the obvious exception of using a calculator). It's better knowing a few methods of reaching the answer and choosing the best one, rather than knowing only one method and attempting to use it for everything. With the example from Kent Sharkey's link
325 - 38, in my head I would do this:38 + 2 = 40 //add 2 to make subtraction easier on my feeble mind
40 - 25 = 15 // use the 25 from 325 and subtract
300 - 15 = 285 // take that away from the remaining 300
285 + 2 = 287 // restore the 2 that I tacked on earlierMaybe it's a little strange, but as I don't do a lot of mental arithmetic I adjust the numbers so I can add or subtract easier while keeping the quantity of intermediate numbers I'll have to remember to a minimum. I also like to do division in my head in a similar fashion, but that's more recursive and to get an accurate answer I have to remember a bunch of numbers along the way, probably best just to use a calculator.
Hmmmm... 38 - 25 = 13 , and 100 - 13 = 87 , so 287 .
-
Kent Sharkey wrote:
Doesn't that mean that they're now trying to override the way they already learned?
Yes. One of the biggest problems in the US is the constantly changing curriculum requirements. This means that what you taught in 6th grade might be re-taught in 7th, or that the new 7th grader is expected to have been taught something different in 6th grade as a the basis for what they are going to learn in 7th grade. My son, who was getting a math-teaching degree at SUNY New Paltz, explains that the curriculum can literally change 2 or 2 times in a school year. Furthermore, because of "No child left behind" and other rubbish (and we can't blame Bush, the tenets of NCLB goes back to the 50's, if not earlier actually) the teacher MUST teach to the curriculum, paced at whatever some bureaucrat decided, because the teacher is graded on how the kids score, so teaching does nothing more than attempt to teach how to pass a test. Every teacher I've talked with hates this system, but what do you expect from a curriculum that was decided in a national conference where all the decision makers were business people, and only one, yes one, I kid you not, teacher was invited to said conference. This country is so FUBAR. Sadly, when I talked to a couple college kids from France, they say their educational system is even worse!!! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming
Marc Clifton wrote:
Yes. One of the biggest problems in the US is the constantly changing curriculum requirements. This means that what you taught in 6th grade might be re-taught in 7th
Marc Clifton wrote:
My son, who was getting a math-teaching degree at SUNY New Paltz, explains that the curriculum can literally change 2 or 2 times in a school year.
That's exactly the kind of stuff that the common core is supposed to get rid of. A lot of the districts get locked into proprietary systems for curricula and tracking progress, which puts a lot of limits on teachers. The foundation I work for is working on getting all states to adopt a common data standard for student level data, so that they can be freed from vendor lock-in along with fixing many other common woes.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
Yes. One of the biggest problems in the US is the constantly changing curriculum requirements. This means that what you taught in 6th grade might be re-taught in 7th
Marc Clifton wrote:
My son, who was getting a math-teaching degree at SUNY New Paltz, explains that the curriculum can literally change 2 or 2 times in a school year.
That's exactly the kind of stuff that the common core is supposed to get rid of. A lot of the districts get locked into proprietary systems for curricula and tracking progress, which puts a lot of limits on teachers. The foundation I work for is working on getting all states to adopt a common data standard for student level data, so that they can be freed from vendor lock-in along with fixing many other common woes.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Andy Brummer wrote:
The foundation I work for is working on getting all states to adopt a common data standard for student level data,
How can you do that with the amount of cultural and economic diversity that is found, not just among different states, but among schools within a state? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming
-
Can anyone really explain to me what this is all about? So far it seems to be a bunch of hoopla that makes things harder and not better. In all fairness I don't know much about it how all works, but when I see something like this[^] I have to wonder what was being smoked when they came up with it.
Jeremy Falcon
I think they are trying to bring back magic in our cold dry intellectual world! :laugh: :rolleyes:
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
-
Andy Brummer wrote:
The foundation I work for is working on getting all states to adopt a common data standard for student level data,
How can you do that with the amount of cultural and economic diversity that is found, not just among different states, but among schools within a state? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming
It's a beast of a standard. For example there are many ways to calculate attendance. By class, for a particular homeroom class, minimum number of hours per day, etc. However there are a limited number of fields required to enable all those calculations. The standard has all the fields and leaves the calculation up to the district. There are a number of different areas, like discipline, attendance, grades, household information. Each one is a related sub-standard. Then there are extensions which are not official but can be shared between implementations and depend on the core standards. It doesn't give 100% abstraction, but we've had vendors estimate that it saved them 80% of their mapping effort between states, which is huge. Here's the standard's website: http://www.ed-fi.org/[^]
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
-
Andy Brummer wrote:
The foundation I work for is working on getting all states to adopt a common data standard for student level data,
How can you do that with the amount of cultural and economic diversity that is found, not just among different states, but among schools within a state? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming
Also, here is another school that the foundation funds that addresses the curricula issue in a completely different way:
Quote:
The School of One’s mission is to provide students with personalized, effective, and dynamic classroom instruction customized to their particular academic needs, interests, and learning preferences. To organize this type of learning, each student receives a unique daily schedule based on his or her academic strengths and needs. As a result, students within the school can receive profoundly different instruction. Each student’s schedule is tailored to ability and to the ways he or she learns best. Teachers acquire data about student achievement each day and then adapt their live instructional lessons accordingly.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
-
Can anyone really explain to me what this is all about? So far it seems to be a bunch of hoopla that makes things harder and not better. In all fairness I don't know much about it how all works, but when I see something like this[^] I have to wonder what was being smoked when they came up with it.
Jeremy Falcon
I think that is stupid way to do math. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
