Couple.Divorce()

Paul Watson

I don't know about that Kevnar. Girls have had whacked out ideas about marriage long before the wedding industry blossomed. I think the wedding industry has mearly capitalised on an already existing need and belief. My sister's friends from when she was a little girl would dream about marriage, dress up, gush etc. That was long before they started reading the trashy magazines. My sister was never like that and still is not to this day. Has her head screwed on straight she does.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

Nitron

Paul Watson wrote: You have a very wrong idea about what and how atheists think then. I was refering to secular atheism in particular. http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml[^] http://www.secular.org/aboutsca.html[^] I was not intending to be in contrast with other flavors of atheism, so I apologise :rose:. But again, a discussion for a different day. :rose: - Nitron

"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

Kevnar

Paul Watson wrote: I think the wedding industry has merely capitalised on an already existing need and belief. You're probably right there. But I think they are contributing to they frenzy at least as much as they profit from it. The wedding industry has fewer repeat customers than other industries, they must constantly drum up new business in order to stay alive. At least this is what the bridal shop told my wife and I when we were planning our wedding. The trouble with my theory is the women who would actually fall for this kind of mayhem probably aren't on CP to affirm my opinions. Women on CP usually have a brain in their heads to start with.

"How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

Lost User

I'm not typing very coherently today am I? I agree with you though. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

l a u r e n

no paul thats naive men never lost face because it was put down to a failing of the woman in the relationship ... dont forget that a couple of hundred years ago in europe u could have ur wife conveniently burned for being a witch ... that was a great no-payout-divorce option at the time im sure im not bleating an anti-man thing here but men really never have and never really do suffer loss of face from divorce i also would like to point out that some divorce settlements where the guy ends up having to pay maintainance to some dilly bitch who is clearly taking the p*ss really annoys me too so yes women can be 'in the wrong' in some senses too (but the debate wasnt really about that)

"penguins have no bill"
biz stuff about me

Alvaro Mendez

I agree 100%. Unfortunately this would cause divorce lawyers to riot. :-) Regards, Alvaro

That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable. -- despair.com

l a u r e n

"all's fair in love and war but in love there's no geneva convention" is the only way i figured to deal with what can (and all too often does) happen in love

"penguins have no bill"
biz stuff about me

Jeremy Falcon

Yes Paul, I made the post this long for you. Anyone else on CP that wants to listen is very welcome to. :) The cold, hard truth on attraction... Out of all the people I've ever met in my entire life (it's been a few), more times than not, it's the chick in the relationship that's unhappy with it and bitchy. I've seen a couple relationships the other way around, but that's only by the infamous "asshole" types that some of my ex-acquaintances of the past and I know of. Most male saps jump when the chick says to - sad but true. Masculine is attracted to feminine and vice versa. That's the laws of nature. You can't have a sissy guy and a chick together and expect to be happy - just settled for. You can't have a butch-chick and a macho guy together either. And, I'm talking about in attitude also, not just the physical aspect. There are a lot of "settled-for" relationships because women don't know what they really want and most guys are sissies. You don't seem to find as many strong, burly, macho-type men these days thanks to growing technology and all-around laziness of people. Consequently, some of the masculine machoness is robbed. And, you can't tell me girls don't like that crap because I have personally had a butt load of girls and guys alike that just love to stare at my chest - even at places like work and the mall! And chicks love to look at guys in the gym just as much as the guys love to look at chicks (the problem is guys stare). So, I speak with experience here. Like Freud said, everything revolves around sex (and I believe the ego too, but they are semi-related anyway). You don't see girls dreaming of sissies, and you don't see guys dreaming of fat chicks - period. Anyone that says otherwise is lying to make their own position in life seem better because they are too lazy to do something about it. If a girl is with her dream guy, she's going to want to stay. If a guy is with his dream girl, he's going to want to stay - end of story. Anything else is just "settled-for", whether it be due to insecurities, learned social traits/habits, or whatever. So, what makes a dream partner? The combination of the physical AND emotional (like personality) things each person needs. You can't have one without the other; otherwise, it's being settled for. Just to help my point along. You can have a macho-type guy that is too much of an asshole. Let's say he's abusive. Then his personality sucks, a nice body won't do much good as far as attraction goes, etc. So, you see, it goes both ways. The re

Kevnar

Simply put, a divorce is the evetual result of a marriage that never should have happened in the first place. Figure out why people marry the wrong person to begin with and you'll have the tools to solve the divorce problem.

"How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

Lost User

Just random thougts .. I was never married or divorced :-). So this is just thoughts that seem logical now - may have nothing to do with what happens out there. The question is whether people become happier in a marriage? As in any partnership, when partners start questioning what the other partner brings to the table, the marriage are in trouble. If spouses do not support each other in thick and thin, what is the point in being married anyway? I don't really know why people get divorced at a higher rate, but I know that it is certainly not a good experience. Everyone involved comes out bruised ... and probably, it is proportional to the emotional investment they made. The only reason can be that people have unrealistic expectations of what a marriage brings to their lives. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Jon Newman

I'm not sure about classical role models, but traditional roles are losing out. The idea of you marry, then spend the rest of your lives together has dissapeared. I think its due to a more 'global' society. Before, you were born, raised, married and died in one city/region, so you didnt really meet as many people, plus people know there is always something better out there and are now more likely to persue it due to the statements peterchen made. Although I would think the dedication,responsibility and loyalty aspects are far more promenent. As well as family, in the past, family viewpoints were considered paramount, if your family disapproved of a marriage, it was difficult to have one. Now, people don't care what their families want, and will get married on whims that don't work. This is more to the point of 'individuality' and independance.

"How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
- Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

peterchen

Mom is at home doing the household, raising the kids, waiting for the man to come. He's at work, bringing home the money, feeding the family. It's the expectations of who-does-what you have when you go into with a partnership. Now people (at least those who married to quickly) can even get split up because, in the end, she's permanently mad that he never does the dishes, never putas the toilet seat down, always works late, etc. (People should figure out this before they marry - but truth is, may have changed the day they changed rings) One should not forget that these role models come from a time where a) doing the house hold, for a family including grandma, and 3 children, *was* a full-days job, and b) "he's at work" regulary meant 6x10 plus 1..2hrs commute - after that you come home, eat and fall into your bed.

If you go to war, you will destroy a great country a stoned greek chick to the richest man of the world
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

Joe Woodbury

One factor is the documented inverse relationship between marriage age and divorce. Connecticut, for example, has the lowest divorce rate and the highest average age of marriage. Utah, despite being heavily religious, has the lowest average age of marriage and one of the highest divorce rates (something Utahns don't like to face.) The most obvious reason is maturity. Franky, few 19 year olds know what the hell their doing let alone thinking forty years into the future. A second reason, brought up several times, is economic. In traditional middle and upper-class social circles, the male had to prove he had an income capable of sustaining a family. But this also meant that the woman was economically tied to the male and his career. One other factor rarely considered is life expectancy. The average age of women divorcing for the first time is 33, for men 35. For women this is about the age they would have died 150 years ago in industrialized cities. (The mortality rate in rural areas was often lower. In the 19th century the child birth mortality rate in Utah, for both mother and child, was extremely low--turns out midwives washed their hands between patients, city doctors often didn't.)

Jeremy Falcon

l a u r e n wrote: no paul thats naive No Lauren, you're being naive. Paul is speaking of a possibility that you are totally shutting down without any real proof. There are many religions that will state otherwise where divorce is shunned regardless. And, from a religious standpoint is does reflect poorly. Now, yes, it may have looked worse for the chick in the past, but that was not Paul's question. Jeremy Falcon

Kevnar

Good points. The only thing I would add is that most people lie to their prospective partners about who they are during courtship. You want to put on your best face, both physical and personality-wise. But then once you get comfortable, as in marriage, the illusion is too much effort to maintain and the true person comes out. Perhaps the fear of lonliness, and the drive for acceptance and intimacy is behind these lies. It's ironic though that a person would seek acceptance of their true selves by hiding, masking, or down-playing their faults. If you hide your faults it's not your true self the other person is accepting and being intimate with. But if you don't hide your faults, you may not get a chance to show your good qualities. I suppose this is perhaps why the wedding vows make you promise to love honor and put up with the other person, come what may.

"How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

Jon Newman

Nitron wrote: random firings of neurons that can be duplicated by consuming lots of cholocate. I like :-) Now to the point... I'm an atheist, I like being one, it makes me feel stronger to be one. But Love/Marriage is one of the things I do agree with when it comes to religion. On an ethical side, Family structure is a crucial thing when it comes to emotional stability. The person who grows up in a close-loving family of traditional mother-father parental roles with families growing exponentially, will have a better grounding in deeling with themselves. Believe me, I come from one such family. My parents are still married and will be untill the day they die. Wheras I know people who have never had a father or mother, they are to me, incomplete. Usually in the form of unruly behavior or generally 'not-fitting in'. Marriage is the thing that binds families, it is supposed to be a very strong bond that is to be undertaken seriously. Religion aside, a marriage is a pact between two human beings to stay together, through and through, to divorce is either to have rushed into it without fully understanding each other, or to break a promise to each other. Another thing, you could not be more wrong about how atheists persive the world. We don't admit we know everything, we just don't rely on circumstantial evidence to 'prove' things or account for things we do not know yet.

"How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
- Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

peterchen

Paul Watson wrote: Girls have had whacked out ideas about marriage long before the wedding industry blossomed. Yeah, like "close your eyes and think of the country" :cool: (conveyed advice of the english in 18th or 19th century about the wedding night)

If you go to war, you will destroy a great country a stoned greek chick to the richest man of the world
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

Jeremy Falcon

You made very good points too. I whole-heartedly agree with this as I have seen it happen many times. Jeremy Falcon

Jon Newman

I agree, now its just some paperwork and a legal settlement. In the past it was a very serious thing to do indeed, and could mean family unrest etc...

"How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
- Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

Jon Newman

Navin wrote: 2. Getting married too quickly. 3. Getting marreid to the wrong person (different values, beliefs, etc.) I think these two are very closely related. If you took your time over it, you'd know the person.

"How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
- Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]