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Couple.Divorce()

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  • N Nitron

    The grounds for athiesm are shaky at best. I don't mean to turn this in a religious direction, but I will attempt to make one small point. Before evaluating any given fact about religion, people bring to the table a pair of rose-colored glasses representing their world-view. This world-view is a culimination of all their experiences and beliefs, as well as the root of their logic. Everyone needs a starting point for their arguments: a faith-based assumption so to speak. From the secular athiest point of view, all there exists in the universe is molecules in motion. Love is nothing more than random firings of neurons that can be duplicated by consuming lots of cholocate. It is their belief that the universe came into being merely by chance, and there is no intelligent creator (God). However, that assumption is not scientifically provable, and as thus is merely an assumption of faith. There is no scientific method to prove what is beyond the universe or supernatural. Now from a bible-believing point of view, the faith assumption is that the bible is the inerrant word of god. A revealing of the nature of God to his people. Like the secular point of view, this assumption is also not provable by scientific method, but is a faith assumption. Thus it is the bible-believer who argues that the only reason the laws of the universe make any sense is that there is an intelligent creator. It is the bible-believer who states that it is no accident that the earth is the exact distance from the sun that it needs to be. The bible-believer will argue that the only reason man can do what he does is that an intelligent creator set it all in motion. Well, considering those two points of view, an athiest marriage is nothing more than random electrical neural patterns, with no set course and no arguable reason to be in the relationship in the first place. Wheras, the believers in a supreme being (God) have taken an oath in front of God as has been revealed to them in God's word. Thus the marriage has a goal and substance, and is not merely random chemical and electrial responses to the presence of the other individual. I am not intending to move this to religious debate, just supporting my response. - Nitron

    "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

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    Jon Newman
    wrote on last edited by
    #41

    Nitron wrote: random firings of neurons that can be duplicated by consuming lots of cholocate. I like :-) Now to the point... I'm an atheist, I like being one, it makes me feel stronger to be one. But Love/Marriage is one of the things I do agree with when it comes to religion. On an ethical side, Family structure is a crucial thing when it comes to emotional stability. The person who grows up in a close-loving family of traditional mother-father parental roles with families growing exponentially, will have a better grounding in deeling with themselves. Believe me, I come from one such family. My parents are still married and will be untill the day they die. Wheras I know people who have never had a father or mother, they are to me, incomplete. Usually in the form of unruly behavior or generally 'not-fitting in'. Marriage is the thing that binds families, it is supposed to be a very strong bond that is to be undertaken seriously. Religion aside, a marriage is a pact between two human beings to stay together, through and through, to divorce is either to have rushed into it without fully understanding each other, or to break a promise to each other. Another thing, you could not be more wrong about how atheists persive the world. We don't admit we know everything, we just don't rely on circumstantial evidence to 'prove' things or account for things we do not know yet.

    "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
    - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
    "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
    - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

    Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
    Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

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    • P Paul Watson

      I don't know about that Kevnar. Girls have had whacked out ideas about marriage long before the wedding industry blossomed. I think the wedding industry has mearly capitalised on an already existing need and belief. My sister's friends from when she was a little girl would dream about marriage, dress up, gush etc. That was long before they started reading the trashy magazines. My sister was never like that and still is not to this day. Has her head screwed on straight she does.

      Paul Watson
      Bluegrass
      Cape Town, South Africa

      Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

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      peterchen
      wrote on last edited by
      #42

      Paul Watson wrote: Girls have had whacked out ideas about marriage long before the wedding industry blossomed. Yeah, like "close your eyes and think of the country" :cool: (conveyed advice of the english in 18th or 19th century about the wedding night)

      If you go to war, you will destroy a great country a stoned greek chick to the richest man of the world
      sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

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      • K Kevnar

        Good points. The only thing I would add is that most people lie to their prospective partners about who they are during courtship. You want to put on your best face, both physical and personality-wise. But then once you get comfortable, as in marriage, the illusion is too much effort to maintain and the true person comes out. Perhaps the fear of lonliness, and the drive for acceptance and intimacy is behind these lies. It's ironic though that a person would seek acceptance of their true selves by hiding, masking, or down-playing their faults. If you hide your faults it's not your true self the other person is accepting and being intimate with. But if you don't hide your faults, you may not get a chance to show your good qualities. I suppose this is perhaps why the wedding vows make you promise to love honor and put up with the other person, come what may.

        "How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

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        Jeremy Falcon
        wrote on last edited by
        #43

        You made very good points too. I whole-heartedly agree with this as I have seen it happen many times. Jeremy Falcon

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        • C Chris Losinger

          loss of stigma associated with divorce. -c

          Image tools: ThumbNailer, Bobber, TIFFAssembler

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          Jon Newman
          wrote on last edited by
          #44

          I agree, now its just some paperwork and a legal settlement. In the past it was a very serious thing to do indeed, and could mean family unrest etc...

          "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
          - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
          "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
          - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

          Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
          Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

          A 1 Reply Last reply
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          • N Navin

            Just the opinions of a guy who's never been married, but seen lots of people get married. 1. Commitment problems, including but not limited to not viewing marriage as a lifetime commitment. 2. Getting married too quickly. 3. Getting marreid to the wrong person (different values, beliefs, etc.) But in fairness, it may also be related to: 4. People may be less afraid of getting out of bad or abusive relationships. You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

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            Jon Newman
            wrote on last edited by
            #45

            Navin wrote: 2. Getting married too quickly. 3. Getting marreid to the wrong person (different values, beliefs, etc.) I think these two are very closely related. If you took your time over it, you'd know the person.

            "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
            - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
            "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
            - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

            Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
            Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • N Nitron

              Paul Watson wrote: You have a very wrong idea about what and how atheists think then. I was refering to secular atheism in particular. http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml[^] http://www.secular.org/aboutsca.html[^] I was not intending to be in contrast with other flavors of atheism, so I apologise :rose:. But again, a discussion for a different day. :rose: - Nitron

              "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

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              Paul Watson
              wrote on last edited by
              #46

              Nitron wrote: I was not intending to be in contrast with other flavors of atheism, so I apologise . But again, a discussion for a different day. Indeed. I never realised there were flavours of atheism that were, well, so damned religous in their ways. Some of those chaps I read about in the links you provided sound like they are very troubled and are trying to create organised religion without God. Not what I like at all, certainly not how "I go about atheism." Amazing stuff, thanks.

              Paul Watson
              Bluegrass
              Cape Town, South Africa

              Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • J Jon Newman

                Nitron wrote: random firings of neurons that can be duplicated by consuming lots of cholocate. I like :-) Now to the point... I'm an atheist, I like being one, it makes me feel stronger to be one. But Love/Marriage is one of the things I do agree with when it comes to religion. On an ethical side, Family structure is a crucial thing when it comes to emotional stability. The person who grows up in a close-loving family of traditional mother-father parental roles with families growing exponentially, will have a better grounding in deeling with themselves. Believe me, I come from one such family. My parents are still married and will be untill the day they die. Wheras I know people who have never had a father or mother, they are to me, incomplete. Usually in the form of unruly behavior or generally 'not-fitting in'. Marriage is the thing that binds families, it is supposed to be a very strong bond that is to be undertaken seriously. Religion aside, a marriage is a pact between two human beings to stay together, through and through, to divorce is either to have rushed into it without fully understanding each other, or to break a promise to each other. Another thing, you could not be more wrong about how atheists persive the world. We don't admit we know everything, we just don't rely on circumstantial evidence to 'prove' things or account for things we do not know yet.

                "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
                - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
                "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
                - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

                Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
                Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

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                Nitron
                wrote on last edited by
                #47

                Jonny Newman wrote: Another thing, you could not be more wrong about how atheists persive the world. In my response to Paul above[^], I stated I was referring to the secular flavor of atheism. Where in their welcoming doctrine[^] they state: "Our goal is to defend and promote a nontheistic worldview which holds that the natural world is all there is, a closed system in no need of a supernatural explanation and sufficient unto itself." I guess it is possible I have misinterpreted that, but I don't claim to be a master of religion, nor did I intend to imply the beliefs of other flavors of atheism. :rose: - Nitron

                "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

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                • N Nitron

                  Jonny Newman wrote: Another thing, you could not be more wrong about how atheists persive the world. In my response to Paul above[^], I stated I was referring to the secular flavor of atheism. Where in their welcoming doctrine[^] they state: "Our goal is to defend and promote a nontheistic worldview which holds that the natural world is all there is, a closed system in no need of a supernatural explanation and sufficient unto itself." I guess it is possible I have misinterpreted that, but I don't claim to be a master of religion, nor did I intend to imply the beliefs of other flavors of atheism. :rose: - Nitron

                  "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

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                  Jon Newman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #48

                  Nitron wrote: "Our goal is to defend and promote a nontheistic worldview which holds that the natural world is all there is, a closed system in no need of a supernatural explanation and sufficient unto itself." Reminds me of this[^] Just read the 'Statement of Principles'

                  "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
                  - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
                  "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
                  - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

                  Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
                  Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

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                  • J Jeremy Falcon

                    Yes Paul, I made the post this long for you. Anyone else on CP that wants to listen is very welcome to. :) The cold, hard truth on attraction... Out of all the people I've ever met in my entire life (it's been a few), more times than not, it's the chick in the relationship that's unhappy with it and bitchy. I've seen a couple relationships the other way around, but that's only by the infamous "asshole" types that some of my ex-acquaintances of the past and I know of. Most male saps jump when the chick says to - sad but true. Masculine is attracted to feminine and vice versa. That's the laws of nature. You can't have a sissy guy and a chick together and expect to be happy - just settled for. You can't have a butch-chick and a macho guy together either. And, I'm talking about in attitude also, not just the physical aspect. There are a lot of "settled-for" relationships because women don't know what they really want and most guys are sissies. You don't seem to find as many strong, burly, macho-type men these days thanks to growing technology and all-around laziness of people. Consequently, some of the masculine machoness is robbed. And, you can't tell me girls don't like that crap because I have personally had a butt load of girls and guys alike that just love to stare at my chest - even at places like work and the mall! And chicks love to look at guys in the gym just as much as the guys love to look at chicks (the problem is guys stare). So, I speak with experience here. Like Freud said, everything revolves around sex (and I believe the ego too, but they are semi-related anyway). You don't see girls dreaming of sissies, and you don't see guys dreaming of fat chicks - period. Anyone that says otherwise is lying to make their own position in life seem better because they are too lazy to do something about it. If a girl is with her dream guy, she's going to want to stay. If a guy is with his dream girl, he's going to want to stay - end of story. Anything else is just "settled-for", whether it be due to insecurities, learned social traits/habits, or whatever. So, what makes a dream partner? The combination of the physical AND emotional (like personality) things each person needs. You can't have one without the other; otherwise, it's being settled for. Just to help my point along. You can have a macho-type guy that is too much of an asshole. Let's say he's abusive. Then his personality sucks, a nice body won't do much good as far as attraction goes, etc. So, you see, it goes both ways. The re

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                    Kevnar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #49

                    Jeremy Falcon wrote: P.S. Here's some info that's invaluable for guys (if they choose to listen). Any woman will never-ever be deep-down, hard-rooted attracted to a guy that they can control. PPS. On the other hand, women will rarely stay involved with a guy they can't control. Thus discontentment is inevitable.

                    "How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

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                    • K Kevnar

                      I'm all for extensive pre-nuptual counselling being mandatory for any couple thinking of tying the knot. Make sure they are compatable, both with each other and with the relationship itself. It's funny how people are forced to take 4-8 years of career training before they are allowed to practice their occupation of choice, law, medicince, whatever, but when it comes to a life-long choice like marriage or parenthood, any idiot with gentials can sign up and ruin someone's life with no training at all.

                      "How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

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                      Paul Watson
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #50

                      I just want to make myself heard: I disagree totally with what you have said. Mainly because I am a romantic, but also because I believe it won't help. Things change afterall.

                      Paul Watson
                      Bluegrass
                      Cape Town, South Africa

                      Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

                      K 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • K Kevnar

                        Jeremy Falcon wrote: P.S. Here's some info that's invaluable for guys (if they choose to listen). Any woman will never-ever be deep-down, hard-rooted attracted to a guy that they can control. PPS. On the other hand, women will rarely stay involved with a guy they can't control. Thus discontentment is inevitable.

                        "How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

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                        Paul Watson
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #51

                        BTW I think Jeremy made a typo and meant to say "attracted to a guy that they can't control." i.e. What you just said. Correct me if I am wrong Jeremy.

                        Paul Watson
                        Bluegrass
                        Cape Town, South Africa

                        Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

                        J K 2 Replies Last reply
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                        • J Jon Newman

                          Nitron wrote: "Our goal is to defend and promote a nontheistic worldview which holds that the natural world is all there is, a closed system in no need of a supernatural explanation and sufficient unto itself." Reminds me of this[^] Just read the 'Statement of Principles'

                          "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
                          - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
                          "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
                          - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

                          Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
                          Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

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                          Nitron
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #52

                          Jonny Newman wrote: Reminds me of this[^] Just read the 'Statement of Principles' :confused: Was this reply intended for me? If so, don't get it. :~ I thought we were talking about divorce, which accidentally slipped on the floor of religion, but bumping my head on the wall of politics?! :confused: How did we end up there? - Nitron

                          "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

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                          • P Paul Watson

                            Simple enough question: What do you attribute the spiralling divorce rate in modern society to? Nish's chauvenistic* post below and his reply that India values of repressing women are the reason for the low divorce rate in India. I thought I would ask for your opinion before replying. :) * however unintended

                            Paul Watson
                            Bluegrass
                            Cape Town, South Africa

                            Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

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                            Nish Nishant
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #53

                            Paul Watson wrote: * however unintended Thanks Paul. I am feeling very disturbed at how easily so many people who know me for over an year totally failed to understand me. Thanks for this clarification :-) Nish

                            Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                            • J Jon Newman

                              Nitron wrote: "Our goal is to defend and promote a nontheistic worldview which holds that the natural world is all there is, a closed system in no need of a supernatural explanation and sufficient unto itself." Reminds me of this[^] Just read the 'Statement of Principles'

                              "How long has the "Quote Selected Text" been around???"
                              - Marc Clifton, Lounge 4 Mar '03
                              "But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
                              - Chris Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03

                              Jonathan 'nonny' Newman
                              Web Designer, Programmer, Lover, Visionary Leader... Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]

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                              Paul Watson
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #54

                              Jonny Newman wrote: Reminds me of this[^] My god! That is exactly what so many non-Americans are fighting against. Scary stuff. I hope there is an American on CP who agrees with that policy, just so we can pick his brains and see just why and how the hell he thinks.

                              Paul Watson
                              Bluegrass
                              Cape Town, South Africa

                              Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

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                              • N Nish Nishant

                                Paul Watson wrote: * however unintended Thanks Paul. I am feeling very disturbed at how easily so many people who know me for over an year totally failed to understand me. Thanks for this clarification :-) Nish

                                Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                                Paul Watson
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #55

                                Nishant S wrote: Thanks for this clarification No problem Nish. I have always thought you were a closet chauvenist anyway. ;P

                                Paul Watson
                                Bluegrass
                                Cape Town, South Africa

                                Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

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                                • P Paul Watson

                                  Simple enough question: What do you attribute the spiralling divorce rate in modern society to? Nish's chauvenistic* post below and his reply that India values of repressing women are the reason for the low divorce rate in India. I thought I would ask for your opinion before replying. :) * however unintended

                                  Paul Watson
                                  Bluegrass
                                  Cape Town, South Africa

                                  Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

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                                  Nish Nishant
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #56

                                  By the way, shouldn't that be :- Couple->Divorce(); ;-) Nish

                                  Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                                  • K Kevnar

                                    Simply put, a divorce is the evetual result of a marriage that never should have happened in the first place. Figure out why people marry the wrong person to begin with and you'll have the tools to solve the divorce problem.

                                    "How many more people have to die before no one ever dies again?" - Daniel Haley, The Onion

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                                    Paul Watson
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #57

                                    Kevnar wrote: Figure out why people marry the wrong person to begin with and you'll have the tools to solve the divorce problem. Now who is being naive? :-D People will always make mistakes, even with something as monumental as marriage. Knowing all the answers, checks, starting variables etc. etc. etc. won't prevent failed marriages. Not taking what you said to extremes though (i.e. 0% divorce) then you are right.

                                    Paul Watson
                                    Bluegrass
                                    Cape Town, South Africa

                                    Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

                                    K 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • P Paul Watson

                                      Nishant S wrote: Thanks for this clarification No problem Nish. I have always thought you were a closet chauvenist anyway. ;P

                                      Paul Watson
                                      Bluegrass
                                      Cape Town, South Africa

                                      Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

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                                      Nish Nishant
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #58

                                      Paul Watson wrote: No problem Nish. I have always thought you were a closet chauvenist anyway. LOL Uhm well however much we try, we'll never ever fully understand the thoughts and acts of an alien culture. Thats basically what happened here. It might shock you to know that back in Trivandrum I was considered a radical guy because I said I preferred my mom to be a working woman. Most of the guys in my school had house wife moms and couldnt imagine anything else. Nish

                                      Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • C Chris Losinger

                                        loss of stigma associated with divorce. -c

                                        Image tools: ThumbNailer, Bobber, TIFFAssembler

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                                        John Fisher
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #59

                                        Associated with that (in most cases) is the loss of stigma when someone fails to live up to his or her promises, commitments, contracts, etc. For some reason the promise to love each other "until death do us part" isn't taken very seriously any more. John :D

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                                        • N Nish Nishant

                                          By the way, shouldn't that be :- Couple->Divorce(); ;-) Nish

                                          Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                                          Paul Watson
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #60

                                          I thought the general opinion is that C++ is perfect and therefore would never need a Divorce method. Therefore my code was VB... ;) BTW in reply to your other post I just want to say I grew up around a lot of Indians. While that does not make me Indian nor does it make me an expert I can sympathise quite strongly with what you are saying from having seen Indian friends going through and thinking the same things. Many of their parents were India born, moved to SA and kept their strict traditions (arranged marriages, caste system etc.) So in short I understand better why the way you are, I just don't agree with it. Am sure there are plenty of western ways you are appalled by, that you disagree with but which you understand why they are they way they are.

                                          Paul Watson
                                          Bluegrass
                                          Cape Town, South Africa

                                          Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

                                          N 1 Reply Last reply
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