Code for fun (hobby)
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I've found that developers who program for fun at their off time usually more in-tune with their skills and have broader knowledge. There are developers that would code at work but have other interests out side of work tense to not very deep in their field. Is my observation off?
I think you're right. I also think most of the commenters on this thread completely misunderstood what you asked. For those who did, note that he didn't state that the people programming outside of work weren't also programming at work. His question was more about whether people who *also* program at home, for fun, are more in tune with programming than people who switch off as soon as they leave the office, and only program for work. But yes, all the best of us engage in recreational programming: programming is more than a job for us: it's a way of thinking.
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"Balanced life" sounds like one of Those Things from the type of magazine that women read, along with "balanced diet" and "balanced body". They'll probably recommend a couple of fads in order to attain it.
Ah yes. A Real Programmer works 10-12 hours at their day job, picks up a bag of Cheeto's and a 12 pack of Red Bull on the way home, and then spends 6 or 7 hours working on an open source project of some sort. On the weekend, he puts in 14 hours on Saturday, and 12 on Sunday (his mom won't do his laundry, so he loses a couple hours; good thing the laundry's in the basement next to his computer desk).
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Quote:
You can't rot in front of a computer your whole life and be happy
...but you can try to! I haven't noticed any rot setting in yet and I have done both professional and hobby programming since 1975.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Forogar wrote:
I have done both professional and hobby programming since 1975.
Yes, but you can't do it all the time, unless you met your wife like in Weird Science[^]. Wait a minute... you are Gary Wallace, heh?
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Do you regret asking yet? :-\
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I used to do both, and while I do agree that my tech skills were greater than my coworkers, I lacked in so many other areas in life (like people skills) that my life sucked. You can't rot in front of a computer your whole life and be happy, and I find now that happy people are the most productive. So while I don't know as many random facts as I used about tech, I still get more done with a balanced life.
Jeremy Falcon
Totally agreed with balancing life and productivity. In the early career days, I used to bring work home but now once I'm out of the office, don't even think about work stuff. From what I see around (colleagues) those that have vested interests in what they do both at work and at home tends to spend more time to stay up current with changing technologies.
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Your answer can be found here :suss:
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At the end of the day, developers are people, and everyone is different and work in their own way. The way that works best for them. I do a fair amount of geekery outside of work, but I also have interests that are non-geek related. I think it's healthy to have other interests, as it makes you a more rounded individual.
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I used to, but now I have way too many other interests. if something is really calling me to research, i'll get a book work with it for a hour or two in the late evening (really liking "D" lang). I got some projects I could do for myself rattling around in my head, but can't justify taking that much time away of the wife and kids. Maybe someday i'll get back to it.
Exactly. However, some developers just want to go fishing or golfing on their day off. Some will pick a book and learn a new language, new ideas, new paradigm... These are what I've observed that make the different between those that just work in tech and those that lead the tech.
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Forogar wrote:
I have done both professional and hobby programming since 1975.
Yes, but you can't do it all the time, unless you met your wife like in Weird Science[^]. Wait a minute... you are Gary Wallace, heh?
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
I met my wife 40 years ago when she stood in front of an IBM 1401 printer. Those lovely long legs were very distracting. I was working with another programmer teaching an IBM 360/30 to tell time.
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Totally agreed with balancing life and productivity. In the early career days, I used to bring work home but now once I'm out of the office, don't even think about work stuff. From what I see around (colleagues) those that have vested interests in what they do both at work and at home tends to spend more time to stay up current with changing technologies.
Leng Vang wrote:
I used to bring work home but now once I'm out of the office, don't even think about work stuff.
Same here. Life is just more fun that way man.
Jeremy Falcon
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I think you're right. I also think most of the commenters on this thread completely misunderstood what you asked. For those who did, note that he didn't state that the people programming outside of work weren't also programming at work. His question was more about whether people who *also* program at home, for fun, are more in tune with programming than people who switch off as soon as they leave the office, and only program for work. But yes, all the best of us engage in recreational programming: programming is more than a job for us: it's a way of thinking.
You hit the nail square. Couldn't said it better myself. I have colleagues with some very sharp and some are okay. But the okay folks are kept going back to the other sharp for answers on the team. The only difference I've notice is that those sharp group spend more time off hours to understand the technology where the okay group seems to not care so much about technology and be there just for the pay check.
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I met my wife 40 years ago when she stood in front of an IBM 1401 printer. Those lovely long legs were very distracting. I was working with another programmer teaching an IBM 360/30 to tell time.
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You hit the nail square. Couldn't said it better myself. I have colleagues with some very sharp and some are okay. But the okay folks are kept going back to the other sharp for answers on the team. The only difference I've notice is that those sharp group spend more time off hours to understand the technology where the okay group seems to not care so much about technology and be there just for the pay check.
I've seen much the same thing... I think for the sharp ones, they job is because they like to do it, and it's easy to have that job, whereas the other ones learned it in order to do the job, which is a whole different viewpoint.
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
Technically, a successful life is one where the organism reproduces before it dies. Achieving no other objective can make its life successful.
You know, I never thought of it this way. Brilliant.
It's also the first time I've expressed it that way, so it's a double first.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Leng Vang wrote:
Is my observation off?
There's an absolute possibility.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0 Beta Have you ever just looked at someone and knew the wheel was turning but the hamster was dead? Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9. I'm not crazy, my reality is just different than yours! Not my circus not my monkey's!
Mike Hankey wrote:
Not my circus not my monkey's!
So, you do own a circus, just not the one referred to? Your monkey's what? That implies you do have a monkey (In your circus?) that is properly referenced by the question but your monkey doesn't own whatever the subject of the question is. Sorry, but the thread itself seems a bit silly.
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Forogar wrote:
I have done both professional and hobby programming since 1975.
Yes, but you can't do it all the time, unless you met your wife like in Weird Science[^]. Wait a minute... you are Gary Wallace, heh?
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
Depends if the person is an outlier, in my experience people that are an outlier in one field or area usually are in others. In my experience prof devs often work in large teams of 2-10-20 developers and you learn from your peers if you want to rise to the top of the heap you have to know more adopt quicker and prof devs are in it for the money so there is motivation. Further to that if you are on a salary usually working with the latest and greatest tools and who ever is running the show will always be on the hunt for new and better and faster. Final point you learn from the the tech you might be using as well.
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I've found that developers who program for fun at their off time usually more in-tune with their skills and have broader knowledge. There are developers that would code at work but have other interests out side of work tense to not very deep in their field. Is my observation off?
You are conflating skill and interest.. those two things may meet.. but frequently do NOT. In my life, I've met few truly great programmers.. and to date not one of the greats has been a coder outside of work. I DO see folks falling for the 'I code outside of work' machismo like its something to be proud of.. but to me its never translated to someone how is truly great at getting things done with a minimum of complexity, partitions modules based on logical precepts, and keeps things easy to maintain. Those engineering type skills are severely lacking in most programmers.. which is why I keep seeing so many utter messes that must be dealt with. The panacea of programming that most seek is contained in one word: rigor. Rigor is not based on hours/day.. its based on how you think and apply the lessons of engineering. Working tired actually DECREASES rigor.. Just my 2cents.
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You are conflating skill and interest.. those two things may meet.. but frequently do NOT. In my life, I've met few truly great programmers.. and to date not one of the greats has been a coder outside of work. I DO see folks falling for the 'I code outside of work' machismo like its something to be proud of.. but to me its never translated to someone how is truly great at getting things done with a minimum of complexity, partitions modules based on logical precepts, and keeps things easy to maintain. Those engineering type skills are severely lacking in most programmers.. which is why I keep seeing so many utter messes that must be dealt with. The panacea of programming that most seek is contained in one word: rigor. Rigor is not based on hours/day.. its based on how you think and apply the lessons of engineering. Working tired actually DECREASES rigor.. Just my 2cents.
A very valid point. I have long advocated the use of robust engineering practices to build software (check out some of my tips / articles on here). Software is an engineering discipline, and rigour is at the heart of that discipline. I have worked with many software developers, some good, some not so good. Some of the great ones however didn't have IT as their background. A couple had degrees in philosophy. This meant they could look at problems with a completely different perspective than your died-in-the-wool developer. They also weren't constrained by tradition or "what everyone else is doing". Another great developer I have worked with left school and went straight into IT and eventually into software development. His depth of knowledge was unsurpassed. A great developer therefore isn't necessarily someone who has an IT background or even IT qualifications. It's more about their attitude and how they approach solving a problem, and how well they understand the various tools, technologies and methodologies to solve those problems.
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I've found that developers who program for fun at their off time usually more in-tune with their skills and have broader knowledge. There are developers that would code at work but have other interests out side of work tense to not very deep in their field. Is my observation off?
I wanna code for fun, but I am too busy enjoying other things in life.:cool: Code Project helps me keep in-tune with my skills and gives me the broader knowledge, so I can. "I am rarely happier than when spending entire day programming my computer to perform automatically a task that it would otherwise take me a good ten seconds to do by hand." - Douglas Adams
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Totally. When its your job you have to get it right, if a hobbyists programs fails what does it matter? plus if you work in a team you glean knowledge from those that know more. A hobbyists and self taught person can fall into bad habits without knowing or realising. do I need to go on lol. GL
I think you are missing the point - I think the question was about coders who do it for a job (and by your argument have to get it right) and also code as a hobby as well - does coding as a hobby give you a broader knowledge. Myself, I expect (broadly speaking) coding is like anything else - the more you do it, the more practiced you get at it. It doesn't necessarily make you a better coder, it usually means you code more, and depending on what kind of coding you do as a hobby get a wider experience. Stands to reason really - chances are hobbyists aren't coding the same kind of things they would at work. Also, chances are hobbyists are more interested in coding for its own sake and enjoy doing it, which would probably mean they learn more and have a broader knowledge.
_WinBase_ wrote:
A hobbyists and self taught person can fall into bad habits without knowing or realising.
Are non-hobbyists immune to bad habits? I don't think so somehow.
_WinBase_ wrote:
do I need to go on lol
Nope. Please don't. ;P
