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A disturbing new trend?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Weird and The Wonderful
databasequestioncsharpcomdata-structures
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  • D Dan Neely

    You can use COBOL to write restful webservices these days... http://azac.pl/cobol-on-wheelchair/[^]

    Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

    P Offline
    P Offline
    PhilLenoir
    wrote on last edited by
    #31

    You can probably go from Land's End to John O'Groats on a unicycle, but should you! :)

    Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.

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    • R Roger Wright

      PIEBALDconsult wrote:

      When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array,

      When I first learned BASIC in the '70s, the only arrays we had were 1 dimensional, 20 DATA 12, 22, 15, 'X' . . . 120 READ A, B, C, $D 130 GOTO 9999 . . . 9999 LPRINT A, B, C, $D 10000 END

      Will Rogers never met me.

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      P Offline
      PhilLenoir
      wrote on last edited by
      #32

      When I were a lad, y'know we flipped them switches by 'and. You 'ad it good, we 'ad to turn the handle on t' side 'n t' only electric we 'ad was when we got struck by lightning.

      Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • G Garth J Lancaster

        COBOL's a pleasure compared to RPG !!! (IBM AS/400 for example)

        R Offline
        R Offline
        rnbergren
        wrote on last edited by
        #33

        Hey now, RPG was the bomb compared to Assembler. I loved the AS/400

        To err is human to really mess up you need a computer

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        • M Marc Clifton

          PIEBALDconsult wrote:

          When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array,

          Then C introduced the struct. Then C++ decided struct should have methods, and called it a class and added all sorts of other artifacts (inheritance, polymorphism, and encapsulation.) Then came along relational databases, and we were introduced in C# to a newfangled way of working with structures, the DataTable, DataView and DataSet, but those caused impedence mismatches so a new artifact was born, the ORM. Then the jar-heads decided to inflict themselves on the process because this was all too complicated and created JSON, a string "structure" that took us back to the BASIC 80's of untyped data and structure encoded in the string itself. Simultaneously, the "kids" (who were not even a glimmer in the eyes of their parents in the 80's) decided that relational databases were bad and gave us NoSQL, which, guess what, uses JSON, is document oriented and requires client-side callbacks to "join" data across documents. And this is called progress. Marc

          Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

          B Offline
          B Offline
          B Clay Shannon
          wrote on last edited by
          #34

          "Then the jar-heads decided to..." This is the first I've heard of the involvement of the U.S. Marines in programming lore, and I must say, I'm skeptical. Weren't they too busy in the Halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli to be flipping bits and decoding bytes and such?

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          • P PhilLenoir

            You can probably go from Land's End to John O'Groats on a unicycle, but should you! :)

            Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.

            D Offline
            D Offline
            Dan Neely
            wrote on last edited by
            #35

            Depends on how important the charity you're sponsoring is to you. Apparently it can be done in less than 9 days in a wheelchair, so you'd only have to take one week of work off. :laugh:

            Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

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            • D Dan Neely

              Depends on how important the charity you're sponsoring is to you. Apparently it can be done in less than 9 days in a wheelchair, so you'd only have to take one week of work off. :laugh:

              Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

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              P Offline
              PhilLenoir
              wrote on last edited by
              #36

              Dan, I said

              Quote:

              You can probably go from Land's End to John O'Groats on a unicycle.

              I can't even ride one. Let me know when you're going, I'll chip in some sponsorship!

              Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.

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              • P PhilLenoir

                Dan, I said

                Quote:

                You can probably go from Land's End to John O'Groats on a unicycle.

                I can't even ride one. Let me know when you're going, I'll chip in some sponsorship!

                Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.

                D Offline
                D Offline
                Dan Neely
                wrote on last edited by
                #37

                If you can find me a 50k sponsorship I'll learn to ride and start on the 32nd of Nevember. :doh:

                Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

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                • D Dan Neely

                  If you can find me a 50k sponsorship I'll learn to ride and start on the 32nd of Nevember. :doh:

                  Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  PhilLenoir
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #38

                  If I could find a 50k sponsorship I'd learn to ride one myself.

                  Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • M Marc Clifton

                    PIEBALDconsult wrote:

                    When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array,

                    Then C introduced the struct. Then C++ decided struct should have methods, and called it a class and added all sorts of other artifacts (inheritance, polymorphism, and encapsulation.) Then came along relational databases, and we were introduced in C# to a newfangled way of working with structures, the DataTable, DataView and DataSet, but those caused impedence mismatches so a new artifact was born, the ORM. Then the jar-heads decided to inflict themselves on the process because this was all too complicated and created JSON, a string "structure" that took us back to the BASIC 80's of untyped data and structure encoded in the string itself. Simultaneously, the "kids" (who were not even a glimmer in the eyes of their parents in the 80's) decided that relational databases were bad and gave us NoSQL, which, guess what, uses JSON, is document oriented and requires client-side callbacks to "join" data across documents. And this is called progress. Marc

                    Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #39

                    RESTFul services are also a big step forward.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • B B Clay Shannon

                      "Then the jar-heads decided to..." This is the first I've heard of the involvement of the U.S. Marines in programming lore, and I must say, I'm skeptical. Weren't they too busy in the Halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli to be flipping bits and decoding bytes and such?

                      M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Marc Clifton
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #40

                      B. Clay Shannon wrote:

                      This is the first I've heard of the involvement of the U.S. Marines in programming lore,

                      I know, it's a bad pun on my part of Java libraries known as JAR. :) Marc

                      Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

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                      • B B Clay Shannon

                        "Then the jar-heads decided to..." This is the first I've heard of the involvement of the U.S. Marines in programming lore, and I must say, I'm skeptical. Weren't they too busy in the Halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli to be flipping bits and decoding bytes and such?

                        S Offline
                        S Offline
                        svella
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #41

                        B. Clay Shannon wrote:

                        This is the first I've heard of the involvement of the U.S. Marines in programming lore, and I must say, I'm skeptical. Weren't they too busy in the Halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli to be flipping bits and decoding bytes and such?

                        My boss learned to program in the Marines in the early 90's- using Ada no less.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • B B Clay Shannon

                          "Then the jar-heads decided to..." This is the first I've heard of the involvement of the U.S. Marines in programming lore, and I must say, I'm skeptical. Weren't they too busy in the Halls of Montezuma and the Shores of Tripoli to be flipping bits and decoding bytes and such?

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                          PIEBALDconsult
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #42

                          The U.S. Marines are part of the U.S. Navy. The U.S. Navy gave us Admiral Grace Hopper. Admiral Grace Hopper gave us COBOL. :-\

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                          • M Mark_Wallace

                            Ah, the good old days... I was early enough not to taught that the string is a data type, but that it's an array (which it still is, but no-one bothers to try to get that into their heads any more), and I've twice seen people reinventing the string by creating an array of characters that can be truncated, searched through, etc. And if I had a penny for every vacant stare I've seen when linked lists were mentioned... * * I could probably buy a Mars bar, but I'd rather let everyone's imagination exaggerate it for me

                            I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!

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                            PIEBALDconsult
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #43

                            Mark_Wallace wrote:

                            it's an array (which it still is, but no-one bothers to try to get that into their heads

                            Oh, you mean they who do char[] c = s.ToCharArray() or char[] c = s.ToArray<char>() ? :doh:

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                            • M Marc Clifton

                              PIEBALDconsult wrote:

                              When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array,

                              Then C introduced the struct. Then C++ decided struct should have methods, and called it a class and added all sorts of other artifacts (inheritance, polymorphism, and encapsulation.) Then came along relational databases, and we were introduced in C# to a newfangled way of working with structures, the DataTable, DataView and DataSet, but those caused impedence mismatches so a new artifact was born, the ORM. Then the jar-heads decided to inflict themselves on the process because this was all too complicated and created JSON, a string "structure" that took us back to the BASIC 80's of untyped data and structure encoded in the string itself. Simultaneously, the "kids" (who were not even a glimmer in the eyes of their parents in the 80's) decided that relational databases were bad and gave us NoSQL, which, guess what, uses JSON, is document oriented and requires client-side callbacks to "join" data across documents. And this is called progress. Marc

                              Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

                              OriginalGriffO Offline
                              OriginalGriffO Offline
                              OriginalGriff
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #44

                              And don't forget how hard we all worked to get rid of the "Mainframe+dumb terminal" structure and introduce distributed, networked, intelligent workstations instead. Now they push the Cloud: centralized data and processing again, but with your data controlled and protected by the lowest bidder... :doh:

                              Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...

                              "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
                              "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • M Marc Clifton

                                PIEBALDconsult wrote:

                                When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array,

                                Then C introduced the struct. Then C++ decided struct should have methods, and called it a class and added all sorts of other artifacts (inheritance, polymorphism, and encapsulation.) Then came along relational databases, and we were introduced in C# to a newfangled way of working with structures, the DataTable, DataView and DataSet, but those caused impedence mismatches so a new artifact was born, the ORM. Then the jar-heads decided to inflict themselves on the process because this was all too complicated and created JSON, a string "structure" that took us back to the BASIC 80's of untyped data and structure encoded in the string itself. Simultaneously, the "kids" (who were not even a glimmer in the eyes of their parents in the 80's) decided that relational databases were bad and gave us NoSQL, which, guess what, uses JSON, is document oriented and requires client-side callbacks to "join" data across documents. And this is called progress. Marc

                                Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

                                U Offline
                                U Offline
                                umlcat
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #45

                                I never understood why to allow C++ records to use methods, or act like classes. It's confusing. I now that those methods are used as constructors or to assign values. Sometimes, developers need to work with both, structs like "Pure C", and "C++" classes. Usually when they need to interact a Object Oriented Application, or, with large massive data, or with low level O.S. data that is not Object Oriented, or just a legacy library. When I require to use both "struct (s)" and "class (es)", I avoid adding methods to "structs". Just my 2 cents.

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                                • P PIEBALDconsult

                                  When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array, so we had to use that and build up more complex structures, but that's just not necessary with C#, OOP, and Collections. So I am saddened to these posts from the last few days: "Int32[] playerNumbers, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints" -- Arrays how to delete multiple entries[^] "Int32[] playerNumbers, ref Int32 playerCount, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints" -- Cannot convert type int[] to int[^] "Int32[] playerNumbers, ref Int32 playerCount, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints" -- delete method not deleting[^] "Array carPark[10][2];" -- What Is Wrong With The Code And Why Doesnt It Run When I Try To Run It In C#[^] Those first two are the same member, the third probably is as well. The fourth is at least using a two-dimensional array, but he obviously copied it from somewhere and has no idea what it is. Oh, sweet Bob, they keep coming... "public string[][] Select(string query)" -- How to return array or list 2 dimensional from SQL Query[^] WTF!? "ProcessDelete(Int32[] playerNumbers, ref Int32 playerCount, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints )"

                                  M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Member_5893260
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #46

                                  It's worse than the '80s. Pascal and C had complex types at the end of the '60s. Even Fortran had a complex type (a pair of integers) in 1957...

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • M Marc Clifton

                                    PIEBALDconsult wrote:

                                    When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array,

                                    Then C introduced the struct. Then C++ decided struct should have methods, and called it a class and added all sorts of other artifacts (inheritance, polymorphism, and encapsulation.) Then came along relational databases, and we were introduced in C# to a newfangled way of working with structures, the DataTable, DataView and DataSet, but those caused impedence mismatches so a new artifact was born, the ORM. Then the jar-heads decided to inflict themselves on the process because this was all too complicated and created JSON, a string "structure" that took us back to the BASIC 80's of untyped data and structure encoded in the string itself. Simultaneously, the "kids" (who were not even a glimmer in the eyes of their parents in the 80's) decided that relational databases were bad and gave us NoSQL, which, guess what, uses JSON, is document oriented and requires client-side callbacks to "join" data across documents. And this is called progress. Marc

                                    Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

                                    L Offline
                                    L Offline
                                    Lost User
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #47

                                    JSON is more lightweight as opposed to XML (no tags required - but does imply foreknowledge of the data formatting). As well - you don't have to worry about malformed tags et al. This is particularly important when trying to reduce traffic on the wire... XML is "pretty", but can be a pig on the wire.

                                    M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • L Lost User

                                      JSON is more lightweight as opposed to XML (no tags required - but does imply foreknowledge of the data formatting). As well - you don't have to worry about malformed tags et al. This is particularly important when trying to reduce traffic on the wire... XML is "pretty", but can be a pig on the wire.

                                      M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Marc Clifton
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #48

                                      Rene Pilon wrote:

                                      XML is "pretty", but can be a pig on the wire.

                                      True, but the fact that we have to serialize data to in JSON / XML is absurd to begin with, and is a "workaround technology" to deal with doing something that HTTP was never originally intended to do. JSON is simply a bandaid on a corpse that refuses to die, and yet it has also become a way to animate other monsters. Marc

                                      Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Higher Order Programming

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • P PIEBALDconsult

                                        When I first learned BASIC in the '80s, the only structure available was the array, so we had to use that and build up more complex structures, but that's just not necessary with C#, OOP, and Collections. So I am saddened to these posts from the last few days: "Int32[] playerNumbers, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints" -- Arrays how to delete multiple entries[^] "Int32[] playerNumbers, ref Int32 playerCount, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints" -- Cannot convert type int[] to int[^] "Int32[] playerNumbers, ref Int32 playerCount, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints" -- delete method not deleting[^] "Array carPark[10][2];" -- What Is Wrong With The Code And Why Doesnt It Run When I Try To Run It In C#[^] Those first two are the same member, the third probably is as well. The fourth is at least using a two-dimensional array, but he obviously copied it from somewhere and has no idea what it is. Oh, sweet Bob, they keep coming... "public string[][] Select(string query)" -- How to return array or list 2 dimensional from SQL Query[^] WTF!? "ProcessDelete(Int32[] playerNumbers, ref Int32 playerCount, String[] playerLastName, Int32[] playerPoints )"

                                        P Offline
                                        P Offline
                                        patbob
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #49

                                        The multiple arrays design isn't really needed much anymore, but similar issues do occasionally crop up from time to time in the real world. I'd rather see students learn how to handle those issues on assigned toy problems than in real world code. I'd like to believe they just haven't been educated in OOP very well yet, which given that it is early in the school year, may well be possible. Even the does-not-compile code is a typical student blunder, I used to see several similar problems every semester when I use to work at the school computing center. Kudos to this student since they're well on their way to having a clue -- they're getting to it early, instead of waiting till the end of the class, which is usually when we'd get students that lost.

                                        We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

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                                        • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

                                          So is the trend that teachers can't teach or that students can't learn? :rolleyes:

                                          It's an OO world.

                                          public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
                                          {
                                          public void DoWork()
                                          {
                                          throw new NotSupportedException();
                                          }
                                          }

                                          My blog[^]

                                          U Offline
                                          U Offline
                                          User 10083203
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #50

                                          It is a bit of both. There are teachers who can't teach, because they are so busy trying to keep up their "no child left behind" status or simply are collecting a paycheck. There are students who are more concerned with facebook, twitter, or whatever than with the educational system. Then there are school which lack funding to update to the best teaching methods.

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