How bad is it Doc?
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_CodeWarrior wrote:
If executed well and with a bit of fun, Agile and Scrum can be a very powerful methodology in some teams and on some projects.
Reads like an ad, and not a very good one. Its success can not be predicted, as with a procedure could. Forgive me, but I heard the ad too often. It is merely a waterfall in a month, and if you cannot do the most important steps from the waterfall, it fails. Specs should be clear (call them stories!) and be frozen for the month (woaah!). Plannings should be flexible, and have some base in reality. Aw, and you need a domain-expert to validate your assumptions. Anyting with a successrate below 40% is called alternative medicine. That's where I put Agile/SCRUM.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
I suppose it did read a bit like an ad, but then, when people have experienced something that they felt was good and they are trying to convince others that the particular experience was good, and it might work for them, they tend to proselytize a bit and it comes off sounding ad-ish. I am not really sure what you are getting at with you middle paragraph. Yes, I suppose it does boil down to a sort of waterfall in a month except the initial specs came out long before the start of the 2-week sprint, and we weren't building the whole application in one fell swoop.
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Specs should be clear (call them stories!) and be frozen for the month (woaah!).
I am not even sure what I am supposed to take away from this. Is that sarcasm ("woaah!")? Our specs were frozen for two weeks and we made sure that we had everything we could think of speced out. One thing I hated was implementing one way and having to go back and change it due to misinterpretations or omissions in the spec. And it would seem to me that having the specs frozen during the sprint would be a good thing. Do you enjoy having someone come back and change the size of this and the color of that and the placement of this other thing several times a day?
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Aw, and you need a domain-expert to validate your assumptions.
What assumptions? And who is this domain expert you speak of? I just don't understand your sarcasm.
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I suppose it did read a bit like an ad, but then, when people have experienced something that they felt was good and they are trying to convince others that the particular experience was good, and it might work for them, they tend to proselytize a bit and it comes off sounding ad-ish. I am not really sure what you are getting at with you middle paragraph. Yes, I suppose it does boil down to a sort of waterfall in a month except the initial specs came out long before the start of the 2-week sprint, and we weren't building the whole application in one fell swoop.
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Specs should be clear (call them stories!) and be frozen for the month (woaah!).
I am not even sure what I am supposed to take away from this. Is that sarcasm ("woaah!")? Our specs were frozen for two weeks and we made sure that we had everything we could think of speced out. One thing I hated was implementing one way and having to go back and change it due to misinterpretations or omissions in the spec. And it would seem to me that having the specs frozen during the sprint would be a good thing. Do you enjoy having someone come back and change the size of this and the color of that and the placement of this other thing several times a day?
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Aw, and you need a domain-expert to validate your assumptions.
What assumptions? And who is this domain expert you speak of? I just don't understand your sarcasm.
_CodeWarrior wrote:
I am not even sure what I am supposed to take away from this.
Nothing :)
_CodeWarrior wrote:
Is that sarcasm ("woaah!")
Yes, seeing the same old in a new packaging, with a new price-tag.
_CodeWarrior wrote:
And who is this domain expert you speak of?
Depending on your crew they'll be called "stakeholders" (where not every stakeholder is a domain-expert), and will be invited to the group by the product owner.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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jeeves77 wrote:
I once wondered what it was like to work on a dysfunctional team, but now I think I know.
This is a perfect opportunity for you to get things going in the right direction. No workplace is perfect and people that leave a job just because there are issues are never happy because every workplace has issues. Study up on Agile and SCRUM. These principles can work very well for certain teams. Then start suggesting improvements. If no one is willing to listen then perhaps it's time to start looking elsewhere. But imagine the job satisfaction you'll have if you can make a big impact on the process.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
True but only if(upper_managment_recognizes_current_direction_is_wrong && is_willing_to_support_change) cause_change; else leave; ;)
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True but only if(upper_managment_recognizes_current_direction_is_wrong && is_willing_to_support_change) cause_change; else leave; ;)
Member 11002765 wrote:
else leave
I say that is a cowardice response. Not saying you are a coward but I think people quit too easily without actually trying to improve things. Yes, you need management on board but don't' fall for the cliches which say management will never change. :^)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Member 11002765 wrote:
else leave
I say that is a cowardice response. Not saying you are a coward but I think people quit too easily without actually trying to improve things. Yes, you need management on board but don't' fall for the cliches which say management will never change. :^)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Great comment! I agree that there are things that a person can change that doesn't require management being on board but, for the most part, without management buy-in, the scope of that change is very limited. Pretty much limited to changing yourself and your personal practices. As far as the cliche of "management will never change", I didn't state, or imply that management wouldn't change. From personal experience, I know that they can and are often willing to change. The fact that they can is inherent in the "if/else" statement. If I thought that they couldn't change then I would have simply stated "leave". Also from personal experience, to have long-lasting, institutionalized change in a sizable organization, management has to be a part of that change.
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Great comment! I agree that there are things that a person can change that doesn't require management being on board but, for the most part, without management buy-in, the scope of that change is very limited. Pretty much limited to changing yourself and your personal practices. As far as the cliche of "management will never change", I didn't state, or imply that management wouldn't change. From personal experience, I know that they can and are often willing to change. The fact that they can is inherent in the "if/else" statement. If I thought that they couldn't change then I would have simply stated "leave". Also from personal experience, to have long-lasting, institutionalized change in a sizable organization, management has to be a part of that change.
Member 11002765 wrote:
without management buy-in, the scope of that change is very limited
Agreed. I just think too many people assume management won't change or don't know how to approach management about changing and just quit without ever trying.
Member 11002765 wrote:
I didn't state, or imply that management wouldn't change.
I know. I guess my response was more generalized and in response to many of the other posts where quitting was the first suggestion.
Member 11002765 wrote:
to have long-lasting, institutionalized change in a sizable organization, management has to be a part of that change.
No doubt. :thumbsup:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Member 11002765 wrote:
else leave
I say that is a cowardice response. Not saying you are a coward but I think people quit too easily without actually trying to improve things. Yes, you need management on board but don't' fall for the cliches which say management will never change. :^)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
don't' fall for the cliches which say management will never change
Where are these places? I've never seen one. Management doesn't need to change, you're the one with the problem, is the attitude I've always gotten.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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RyanDev wrote:
don't' fall for the cliches which say management will never change
Where are these places? I've never seen one. Management doesn't need to change, you're the one with the problem, is the attitude I've always gotten.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
BrainiacV wrote:
Where are these places?
i believe most places have managers willing to do what is right. Sometimes it requires you to figure out how to speak their language. Perhaps I'm just being naive, but in my experience you can get change if you work on it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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BrainiacV wrote:
Where are these places?
i believe most places have managers willing to do what is right. Sometimes it requires you to figure out how to speak their language. Perhaps I'm just being naive, but in my experience you can get change if you work on it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
i believe most places have managers willing to do what is right.
Again, I ask, where are these places? Aside from myself and one manager I had in my long career (and they fired him), all have been insecure, egotistical tyrants, who view any criticisms (doesn't matter if it is posed as a suggestion) as a direct challenge to their authority. Most prefer to rule by fear and intimidation, the rest, indifference, they're the manager, you aren't. The one great manager I had that was willing to listen and work with you, was fired though the actions of the other sharks in the pool.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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RyanDev wrote:
i believe most places have managers willing to do what is right.
Again, I ask, where are these places? Aside from myself and one manager I had in my long career (and they fired him), all have been insecure, egotistical tyrants, who view any criticisms (doesn't matter if it is posed as a suggestion) as a direct challenge to their authority. Most prefer to rule by fear and intimidation, the rest, indifference, they're the manager, you aren't. The one great manager I had that was willing to listen and work with you, was fired though the actions of the other sharks in the pool.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
BrainiacV wrote:
Most prefer to rule by fear and intimidation, the rest, indifference, they're the manager, you aren't.
Hm. What did you do to try and change things?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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BrainiacV wrote:
Most prefer to rule by fear and intimidation, the rest, indifference, they're the manager, you aren't.
Hm. What did you do to try and change things?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
What did you do to try and change things?
You're missing the point. These people are thick as a brick. There was one instance where the manager espoused this weird idea of how she wanted source code control to be used. Myself and the eleven others on the team tried to explain to her that was not how source code worked. Her reply, "That's how it will work here!" So the weight of opinion/knowledge was totally ignored. Another time I had written a universal sortation package in FORTH (the company standard), it handled infinite diverter types with infinite geometries, and a new manager came in and decreed all programs were to be written in 'C', to be more "commercial." I tried to explain the program could not be converted. FORTH allows you to modify the compiler as the program compiles. I wasn't playing games, but creating a dynamic preprocessor that generated data structures and populated them with values, depending on the code. No matter, the decision was made, logic had no bearing on it, even after I tried to walk him through the code to show how it worked. He admitted he didn't understand half of what I said (I'll estimates less than a third), but his mind was made up. Before you say I failed because I befuddled him, he didn't understand the concepts of how our systems worked, he was using what I call "Management By Magazine Article Logic" in that he had heard 'C' was a more popular language and that is what he was basing his decision on. So he threw away a program that solved all their problems, past, present, and future. I could write a book giving you more examples.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.