Blackmail
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Paul Watson wrote: Just what the hell do the Israelis do? They get out of the bulldozer, beat her unconscious, drag her out of the way and bulldoze the shak. And then get vilified for doing that too. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Paul Watson wrote: Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. Agreed. BTW, although it was reported in the US, no significant groups (or media) are making it out as a big international incident. She put herself in a VERY dangerous situation and suffered the ultimate consequence. "Au revoir" "Adiós" "Auf Wiedersehen" "Arrivederci" Mike Mullikin :beer:
"I'm not calling you a liar but....I can't think of a way to finish that sentence." - Bart Simpson
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Paul Watson wrote: Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. Agreed. BTW, although it was reported in the US, no significant groups (or media) are making it out as a big international incident. She put herself in a VERY dangerous situation and suffered the ultimate consequence. "Au revoir" "Adiós" "Auf Wiedersehen" "Arrivederci" Mike Mullikin :beer:
"I'm not calling you a liar but....I can't think of a way to finish that sentence." - Bart Simpson
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
:rolleyes: So passive resistance is dead as a principal then? Gandhi would be turning in his grave were he not cremated... '--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
This is the part I like.. Version #1 "She was raising her hands and yelling at the bulldozer driver to stop," Arraf said. "The bulldozer driver paid no attention. ... He buried Rachel with dirt, which ended up, obviously, knocking her down. Then he ran over her, and then reversed and ran over her again." (Arraf is the cofounder of the group she was with.) Version #2 Other witnesses, however, reported that Corrie had scaled a pile of dirt but then lost her footing and fell backward behind it, out of sight of the bulldozer operator. The bulldozer continued moving forward, covering Corrie with dirt and then crushing her. Stupid is as stupid does. Didn't mommy tell her not to play in "construction" zones. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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That's what I'm thinking. I mean, I've never hit a chick in my life, but if it came between killing her and hitting her to knock her unconscious I'd have to weigh my options. Jeremy Falcon
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l a u r e n wrote: they could have hauled her out of the way no? I look at it this way: She walked in front of the bulldozer and was perfectly capable of walking away. She committed suicide for her cause and the Israelis let her. Mike Mullikin :beer:
"I'm not calling you a liar but....I can't think of a way to finish that sentence." - Bart Simpson
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
I didn't hear about it, but the fact that she is American does not make me care more or less. As usual there are two sides of the story. Israel says she slipped and it was an accident, the protestors of case say she targeted. Whether or not her death is justified, well that depends on what really happened. I don't think she should be targeted and murdered, but if she slipped I have no sympathy really because she knowingly and willingly put herself into a dangerous position. BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
I don't honestly know what to think. My first impression is WTF are they going to accomplish by destroying someones home? To me it is completely barbaric. But, knowing that they are going to do it anyway, seems like you are taking your chances by throwing your body in front of the dozer. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.
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They didn't even know she was there. She fell behind the pile of dirt. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: They didn't even know she was there. She fell behind the pile of dirt. That changes a lot. Moral of the story: Don't get in front of a bulldozer and fall behind a pile of dirt. :) [edit] Although, it's kinda hard to believe she behind a pile of dirt long enough to get ran over, but who knows. [/edit] Jeremy Falcon
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l a u r e n wrote: they could have hauled her out of the way no? I look at it this way: She walked in front of the bulldozer and was perfectly capable of walking away. She committed suicide for her cause and the Israelis let her. Mike Mullikin :beer:
"I'm not calling you a liar but....I can't think of a way to finish that sentence." - Bart Simpson
Amen!!! Darwin wins again. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Tim Smith wrote: They didn't even know she was there. She fell behind the pile of dirt. That changes a lot. Moral of the story: Don't get in front of a bulldozer and fall behind a pile of dirt. :) [edit] Although, it's kinda hard to believe she behind a pile of dirt long enough to get ran over, but who knows. [/edit] Jeremy Falcon
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I don't honestly know what to think. My first impression is WTF are they going to accomplish by destroying someones home? To me it is completely barbaric. But, knowing that they are going to do it anyway, seems like you are taking your chances by throwing your body in front of the dozer. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Wow - there's something other than Iraq on the news tonight. I just sat through half an hour of it, the only other topic was the weather (which is likely to reach the dizzy heights of 18 this weekend :jig: ). As for the question - it's stupid to pretend to be a human shield if you aren't taking it seriously. You should also take your opponent seriously, and not underestimate them. I'm not saying it's nice to run people over with bulldozers, but as you say, she knew what she was getting into. There was news about 10 days ago that a whole load of British human shields in Iraq were flying home due to fears for their own safety. Possibly one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.
I may try to delete my CP cookies. But its almost like tossing the keys of the appartment into the river. - Andreas Saurwein
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
I'm shocked. I trully don't know if she should be considered a heroin, or should be considered for the Darwin Awards[^].
It's not the fall that kills you: it's the sudden stop - Down by Law, Jim Jamursch (1986)
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Amazed nobody here brought this up, seems like sure fire material for us lot :-D Basically an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed a human shield in Palestine the other day. What should not make any difference but obviously does was that the person killed was an American woman. Now I am pretty sure plenty of people have already been trampled by bulldozers over the last few years in that region. But now that it was an American woman the matter has claimed front page status here. The obvious thing happened as well as Palestinians are using it to show how barbaric and awful those nasty Israelis are. They see the potential of using that the victim was American. Anyway my wandering point is: A radio station last night was asking wether the death was "justified." Now death is rarely justified, but in my ever not so humble opinion this death was. The woman stood before a bulldozer. She was there as a human shield. She knew the consequences. She knew Israelis don't negotiate and don't fold to threats. To me it is blackmail. If Israel backs down and does not bulldoze the shack, subsequently killing the human shield, then every Tom, Dick and Sheila is going to rush off and be human sheilds to save the poor Palestinians because they see that their lives really are not in danger because the Israelis won't run you over to get to the house. But if Israel does go ahead, run over the human sheild and bulldoze the house then the anti-Israelis have ammo to show how barabaric the Israelis are. Just what the hell do the Israelis do (lets not go asking wether bulldozing shacks is proper or not ok, lets assume it is for this thread)?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
First, I missed it completely. When was it? I returned Sunday noon from vac... 2nd, I agree with the one pointing out that calling her standing there "blackmail" means the end to passive resistance (in german, you call it "ziviler ungehorsam" - "civil disobedience". I had some "training" in that - it can be very effective :cool: ), which is a very de-escalating way of fighting. Basically, it gives the other side a chance to say, "ok, maybe they are not the antichrist." 3rd, the really sad thing is: What proportions would it have gotten when her death had involved a palestinean sling&stone? Of course I'm just guessing here...
Italian is a beautiful language. amare means to love, and amara bitter.
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
They were searching for underground tunnels being used to smuggle weapons. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: They were searching for underground tunnels being used to smuggle weapons. I got that from the article and understand the motivation. I just have a problem with the way they go about it. Seems excessively heavy handed to me. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.
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Yet another cleansing of the gene pool! Survival of the fittest :-D - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
Damn! Beaten by a few seconds!
It's not the fall that kills you: it's the sudden stop - Down by Law, Jim Jamursch (1986)