I have to say it ...
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Yeh, right. As if that's going to happen. I didn't see the UN rushing to prosecute NATO countries when innocent Serbians were killed during the conflict in 1999 - is anyone actually naive enough to think this situation is going to be any different? When this is over and Saddams stash of WMDs is found, the UN is going to look pretty stupid.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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If it is legality you seek then what about the legality of gassing your own people ? What about the legality of routine torture and murder of political opponents ? I could go on . Surely the question is not one about narrow definitions of legality , but whether or not the action is justified .After all the quickest way to get 5 opinions is to put 3 laywers in a room . Nukes ? If nukes where used then it would signify such a change in the perception of what nukes are for that the world would become a vastly more dangerous place. Nukes must remain a weapon of last resort . Am I the only one forever playing catch up with technology , while all the juicy opportunites keep rolling by ?
Andrew Torrance wrote: If it is legality you seek then what about the legality of gassing your own people ? What about the legality of routine torture and murder of political opponents ? Sure, but what about the hundred of children that die everyday in Saudi Arabia because the lack of food when their dictators are rotted with money from the oil? Not to mention the situation of women there, many of them are simply slaves… What about North Korea? I could go on as well ... Why US only attacks Iraq and does nothing in the other countries? Andrew Torrance wrote: Nukes must remain a weapon of last resort . So do you really believe that Nukes dropped at Hiroshima and Nagashaki were the last resort?
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are you saying that the war is legal and it is Americas right to attack Iraq La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
There is no right in a case like this, only wrongs. By his conduct Saddam has betrayed the whole of humanity as well as his own people, and therefore he has brought this upon Iraq, not GWB (much as I dislike him, I think he's sincere). It's too late to point fingers (IMHO most of the diplomats have been acting like children, making war more likely, not less). We should all be praying for an outcome to this war that benefits the people of Iraq and humanity as a whole. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Kosovo was illegal... Davy Blog for Software Testing, Bugs, Quality, Security and Stability - www.latedecember.com
News From Angus, Scotland - The Angus Blog...but justified, I think. The UN did themselves no favours by dithering while people died. It should have got involved in the Balkans long before it did. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Nitron wrote: The illegal (the UN didn’t approve the attack) They don't have to. Yes, they have to, otherwise US is violating the international legality and so invading a country unilaterally. G. Bush should pay his war crimes Nitron wrote: Not to link this issue with terrorism, but I forgot which UN resolution the approval of attacking the US with hijacked airplanes fell under? Can you remind me? UN condoned the 11th sept terrorist attack, but now US is committing another, probably more serious act of terrorism, government terrorism. There was no a single piece of evidence that there was a connection point between Iraq and Al Quaeda. Can you tell me what Iraq has to do with Bin Laden? Perhaps you don't know that it's Saudi Arabia who is supporting terrorist groups.
OCid wrote: Yes, they have to, otherwise US is violating the international legality and so invading a country unilaterally. It is in the interest of our own national security, and is not illegal. OCid wrote: Can you tell me what Iraq has to do with Bin Laden? Perhaps you don't know that it's Saudi Arabia who is supporting terrorist groups. Nothing that I know of. I was just livid at the time over your useless post and should have abstained from responding at all. - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Andrew Torrance wrote: If it is legality you seek then what about the legality of gassing your own people ? What about the legality of routine torture and murder of political opponents ? Sure, but what about the hundred of children that die everyday in Saudi Arabia because the lack of food when their dictators are rotted with money from the oil? Not to mention the situation of women there, many of them are simply slaves… What about North Korea? I could go on as well ... Why US only attacks Iraq and does nothing in the other countries? Andrew Torrance wrote: Nukes must remain a weapon of last resort . So do you really believe that Nukes dropped at Hiroshima and Nagashaki were the last resort?
Dude, what about the people here in america that chain their own children to the bed and starve them! Evil and illegality exist everywhere, and if everyone was simply a cannibis sativa plantation owning pacifist, then the world would be even worse than it already is. - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: When this is over and Saddams stash of WMDs is found, the UN is going to look pretty stupid. When this is over and thousands of innocent citizens had been killed, the US is going to feel as Nazis.
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I haven't read the soap box actualy but why does any one have to die Iraq is suffering since 91 they dont have food or medicine what are they going to do in this stae La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
Samer12 wrote: why does any one have to die Iraq is suffering since 91 they dont have food or medicine what are they going to do in this stae An how come Saddam has built a large amount of extremely rich palaces in the mean time? Why didn't he, as the leader of Iraq, use the available resources to feed and protect "his" people? I'll tell you why: because he doesn't give a rat's ass about the Iraqi people. He only cares about himself. The thing is that everybody is quick to blame the US for all the maladies of the world instead thinking a bit more about the reality of the situation. It's like Microsoft, it's "cool" to blame Microsoft for every bad thing that happens. I wonder why nobody has said that Bill Gates started this mess so he could force all iraqis to install Windows in every computer the own. :)
There are only 10 kind of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Nitron wrote: The illegal (the UN didn’t approve the attack) They don't have to. Yes, they have to, otherwise US is violating the international legality and so invading a country unilaterally. G. Bush should pay his war crimes Nitron wrote: Not to link this issue with terrorism, but I forgot which UN resolution the approval of attacking the US with hijacked airplanes fell under? Can you remind me? UN condoned the 11th sept terrorist attack, but now US is committing another, probably more serious act of terrorism, government terrorism. There was no a single piece of evidence that there was a connection point between Iraq and Al Quaeda. Can you tell me what Iraq has to do with Bin Laden? Perhaps you don't know that it's Saudi Arabia who is supporting terrorist groups.
OCid wrote: single piece of evidence that there was a connection point between Iraq and Al Quaeda. Can you tell me what Iraq has to do with Bin Laden There is no "publicly known" proof of direct ties between al-qaeda and the Iraqi goverment but there is proof of al-qaeda members training in iraq. Also, Saddam sponsors palestininan terrorist groups by paying US$25,000 to the families of suicide bombers. I bet that money could feed a lot of iraqi people. I'm sure it could feed me and my family for a considerable amount of time. OCid wrote: Perhaps you don't know that it's Saudi Arabia who is supporting terrorist groups. I agree with you, this is an issues that definitely has to be addressed.
There are only 10 kind of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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What about the HUNDREDS of thousands of innocents killed by Saddam? Funny how people conveniently forget about them as they fall over themselves to condemn the US/UK.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: What about the HUNDREDS of thousands of innocents killed by Saddam? I'm not defending SH, he's a bastard assassin. But he’s not the only one out there. Just consider the situation in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc …and now G. Bush wants to be at the same level. However, all I’ve said still holds.
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OCid wrote: Yes, they have to, otherwise US is violating the international legality and so invading a country unilaterally. It is in the interest of our own national security, and is not illegal. OCid wrote: Can you tell me what Iraq has to do with Bin Laden? Perhaps you don't know that it's Saudi Arabia who is supporting terrorist groups. Nothing that I know of. I was just livid at the time over your useless post and should have abstained from responding at all. - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
Nitron wrote: It is in the interest of our own national security, and is not illegal. Yes, it's illegal internationally and I'm sure the attack is in the interest of your own national economy. If you want to protect your country you should look somewhere else, or even better, forget your imperialist policies. Please, don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against american people, it's just the way G. Bush is corrupting the world.
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Nitron wrote: It is in the interest of our own national security, and is not illegal. Yes, it's illegal internationally and I'm sure the attack is in the interest of your own national economy. If you want to protect your country you should look somewhere else, or even better, forget your imperialist policies. Please, don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against american people, it's just the way G. Bush is corrupting the world.
OCid wrote: Yes, it's illegal internationally and I'm sure the attack is in the interest of your own national economy. It is WAR for crying out loud. War is not illegal. Yes there are such things as "war crimes" and the policies of the Geneva convension, however GWB was within all conditions for a country to wage war. I'm sure the leaders of the most powerful military in the world are well aware of what it takes to justify war. And imperialist policies! Give me a break. We have no interest in the country of Iraq other than the removal of Saddam. If we do, then the president is knowlingly misleading the American people. I personally give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean hey, people like you gave Clinton another chance. OCid wrote: it's just the way G. Bush is corrupting the world. So the entertainment industry has no part in it? Drug lords and the military black-market. I mean come on, open your eyes. If you are truly heartfelt about your opinions, at least provide some proof to your arguments! There are plenty of people here on CP who have differing views, and they are logical and well presented, and thus respected. Don't post bitchy whining just because the dixie chicks are ashamed of being from texas. - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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The illegal (the UN didn’t approve the attack) and immoral invasion of Iraq has started. It seems (not confirmed) that right now Iraq is responding with chemical weapons (which by the way were provided by USA some years back) in the border with Iraq. G. Bush promised that if Iraq was going to use chemical weapons, they will respond with a nuke. Yes, I know this should be posted in the soapbox, but I felt I had to say it here.
Why, if this is so wrong and illegal, doesn't China, Frnace, Gerrmany, and Russia send troops into Iraq to help them defend themselves against the oppressors? BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
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OCid wrote: Yes, it's illegal internationally and I'm sure the attack is in the interest of your own national economy. It is WAR for crying out loud. War is not illegal. Yes there are such things as "war crimes" and the policies of the Geneva convension, however GWB was within all conditions for a country to wage war. I'm sure the leaders of the most powerful military in the world are well aware of what it takes to justify war. And imperialist policies! Give me a break. We have no interest in the country of Iraq other than the removal of Saddam. If we do, then the president is knowlingly misleading the American people. I personally give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean hey, people like you gave Clinton another chance. OCid wrote: it's just the way G. Bush is corrupting the world. So the entertainment industry has no part in it? Drug lords and the military black-market. I mean come on, open your eyes. If you are truly heartfelt about your opinions, at least provide some proof to your arguments! There are plenty of people here on CP who have differing views, and they are logical and well presented, and thus respected. Don't post bitchy whining just because the dixie chicks are ashamed of being from texas. - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
Nitron wrote: GWB was within all conditions for a country to wage war Just tell me one reason. The fact that they own hidden weapons? That wouldn't be a valid point. Many other countries have nuclear weapons, including US. You can tell me that Iraq invaded Kuwait, but US also invaded Vietnam. Nitron wrote: We have no interest in the country of Iraq other than the removal of Saddam Yes, that's true, but the reason is that you want to install your own goverment in order to control all the oil. Nitron wrote: I personally give him the benefit of the doubt. I sorry to say this but GB doesn't deserve it. He is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated guy.
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If it is legality you seek then what about the legality of gassing your own people ? What about the legality of routine torture and murder of political opponents ? I could go on . Surely the question is not one about narrow definitions of legality , but whether or not the action is justified .After all the quickest way to get 5 opinions is to put 3 laywers in a room . Nukes ? If nukes where used then it would signify such a change in the perception of what nukes are for that the world would become a vastly more dangerous place. Nukes must remain a weapon of last resort . Am I the only one forever playing catch up with technology , while all the juicy opportunites keep rolling by ?
Nukes , in the large sense , are stragic weapons - not tactical. The US does have tactical nuclear capability but against a pathetic little army like Iraqs I don't believe that they would be used. They would serve nu useful purpose. Beside that they would complicate us getting all that oil we are going to steal. :) Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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are you saying that the war is legal and it is Americas right to attack Iraq La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
YES YES YES !!!! Now whcih part of Y E S do you need clarification on. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Nitron wrote: GWB was within all conditions for a country to wage war Just tell me one reason. The fact that they own hidden weapons? That wouldn't be a valid point. Many other countries have nuclear weapons, including US. You can tell me that Iraq invaded Kuwait, but US also invaded Vietnam. Nitron wrote: We have no interest in the country of Iraq other than the removal of Saddam Yes, that's true, but the reason is that you want to install your own goverment in order to control all the oil. Nitron wrote: I personally give him the benefit of the doubt. I sorry to say this but GB doesn't deserve it. He is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated guy.
OCid wrote: sorry to say this but GB doesn't deserve it. He is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated guy. He is President of The United States. And you are....... ??? Probably an out of work programmer. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Nitron wrote: GWB was within all conditions for a country to wage war Just tell me one reason. The fact that they own hidden weapons? That wouldn't be a valid point. Many other countries have nuclear weapons, including US. You can tell me that Iraq invaded Kuwait, but US also invaded Vietnam. Nitron wrote: We have no interest in the country of Iraq other than the removal of Saddam Yes, that's true, but the reason is that you want to install your own goverment in order to control all the oil. Nitron wrote: I personally give him the benefit of the doubt. I sorry to say this but GB doesn't deserve it. He is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated guy.
OCid wrote: Just tell me one reason. I am sure there are plenty of reasons that are classified. Like someone stated around here: The first thing to die in war is the truth. The media is biased, and so are peace-mongers such as yourself. It is not a petty dicision to mobilize a quarter-million troops. However you intend to twist GWB's intentions, a quarter-million US soldiers follow his lead. So the reason is that people who have much more information on the situation than you do believe it is in the best interest of the United States to take such action. OCid wrote: He is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated guy. I would hope the leader of my country is more than a VB programmer such as yourself. OCid wrote: but the reason is that you want to install your own goverment in order to control all the oil. What! :mad: The Iraqi oil belongs to the Iraqi people. Period. So let's shift the issue. How would you control the situation? Just be a sorry pacifist, and wonder that to do after it's too late? I have a feeling you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't even know why I'm bothering continuing this any further. You're probably like 12 years old and are home sick from school. X| - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb