Silly question, if Iraq is disarmed why are they firing Scuds?
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KaЯl wrote: Incredible. You handled my rant well. Thanks. I won't bother you for a week or so, off on a vacation - just had to jump in on this one though.:) Mike
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I don't know the english translation for it potato wedges. I like mine with cheese melted over them. mmmm.:) BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
brianwelsch wrote: wedges Aaah! Yes, that's the word I was looking for. brianwelsch wrote: I like mine with cheese melted over them. mmmm Heh. What's up with you americans and cheese? :-D Try it with olive oil, garlic and some other spice (forget which.. :/ Basil-something or was it dragon-whatever-it's-called-in-english). I think I need a chef dictionary or something.. :| -- Shine, enlighten me - shine Shine, awaken me - shine Shine for all your suffering - shine
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KaЯl wrote: He put men on the Moon. Someone said that exchanging ideas through email (or similar systems) is prone to misinterpretations... Well, here's one case. This is a real case of admiration of Von Braun's work. Nothing else.
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It depends mainly from your taste, and my experience is still limited (but I'm actively working on it). If you want something perfumed, light but however a real wine, I would recommend a red Saumur, 2001 or 2001, it's a wine which doesn't need (and like) to age. Here we pay 3 to 4 € for a bottle in a supermarket, but I suppose it's much more higher outside. My parents now live in the Loire valley, and I always take some bottles back when I "go home". :)
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
KaЯl wrote: and my experience is still limited (but I'm actively working on it). You're french, you'll be an expert one day! :) KaЯl wrote: If you want something perfumed Hugo Boss? :-D Sorry, couldn't resist. :-D I know what you mean, I think. I couldn't find a Grand Cuvée, but I did find these: http://www.systembolaget.se/pris/owa/xdisplay?p_varunr=2168&p_rest=0&p_back=xall[^] and http://www.systembolaget.se/pris/owa/xdisplay?p_varunr=12214&p_rest=0&p_back=xall[^]. The first mentioned costs around €13-14 and the latter around €7. What do you think? Have you tried any of these? -- Shine, enlighten me - shine Shine, awaken me - shine Shine for all your suffering - shine
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I'm only human you know. :) I wasn't directing that you personally, Jörgen. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I'd been a bit harsher towards Bush and Blair or maybe Saddam ;) BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
brianwelsch wrote: I wasn't directing that you personally, Jörgen. I know, but I wanted to make sure there weren't any confusions. ;) brianwelsch wrote: or maybe Saddam Ah yes, of course. I'd spank his ass with a spatula until he tells me all his secrets. And then when all was revealed, I'd spank him again for being such a naughty gimp. :-D -- Shine, enlighten me - shine Shine, awaken me - shine Shine for all your suffering - shine
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KaЯl wrote: and my experience is still limited (but I'm actively working on it). You're french, you'll be an expert one day! :) KaЯl wrote: If you want something perfumed Hugo Boss? :-D Sorry, couldn't resist. :-D I know what you mean, I think. I couldn't find a Grand Cuvée, but I did find these: http://www.systembolaget.se/pris/owa/xdisplay?p_varunr=2168&p_rest=0&p_back=xall[^] and http://www.systembolaget.se/pris/owa/xdisplay?p_varunr=12214&p_rest=0&p_back=xall[^]. The first mentioned costs around €13-14 and the latter around €7. What do you think? Have you tried any of these? -- Shine, enlighten me - shine Shine, awaken me - shine Shine for all your suffering - shine
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: You're french, you'll be an expert one day! I have to, I have a cultural heritage to acquire :) Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: but I did find these Generally, Saumur is not a wine made to age, it doesn't improve itself. However, 1995 was an exceptional year for the Saumur (1996 was terrific too), I remember it at the best year I ever drunk. Did it age well? i don't know. In a same year, I don't find much difference between the different producers of Saumur (probably because my taste is not efficient enough yet :-O) Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: The first mentioned costs around €13-14 and the latter around €7. What do you think? Have you tried any of these? If a bottle of saumur costs 13 to 14€, how would cost a grand bordeaux! :omg: Does the transportation cost 10€?!
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Chris Losinger wrote: but did GWB need to do it in such a way as to give a reason to the other 190+ countries I think that IF it is done right, the US and the UK and other nations that work together can show that people will no longer stand by and watch silently while there is evil in the world. Thats sounds simplistic, but I think when people hear the Iraqi people's side of the story, we will come out with a better world opinion. The interesting thing is that a lot of the Eastern European nations are supportive of the attack, I wonder if they have a deeper understanding of what the Iraqi people are going through and what SH is about. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: I wonder if they have a deeper understanding of what the Iraqi people are going through and what SH is about I'm not sure, but IMHO the "eastern" governments don't care: they want the protection of the US shield, point. The people of these countries are generally less enthusiastic, like through all Europe.
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: You're french, you'll be an expert one day! I have to, I have a cultural heritage to acquire :) Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: but I did find these Generally, Saumur is not a wine made to age, it doesn't improve itself. However, 1995 was an exceptional year for the Saumur (1996 was terrific too), I remember it at the best year I ever drunk. Did it age well? i don't know. In a same year, I don't find much difference between the different producers of Saumur (probably because my taste is not efficient enough yet :-O) Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: The first mentioned costs around €13-14 and the latter around €7. What do you think? Have you tried any of these? If a bottle of saumur costs 13 to 14€, how would cost a grand bordeaux! :omg: Does the transportation cost 10€?!
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
KaЯl wrote: grand bordeaux The only wine with bordeux in its name I could find was Cordier Bordeaux Collection Privée - €8. The most expensive red wine I could find was Château Valandraud 1997. It costs around €400. :) White wine: Château d'Yquem 1988 - €460. :) If I'm gonna drink such an expensive wine, I'd better have a really nice female company. There's no way I'll spend that much money on a bottle of wine! :) KaЯl wrote: Does the transportation cost 10€?! Well, we have quite harsh alcohol taxes. We've got a state monopoly on alcohol with more than 3.5% alcohol (volume). And I imagine they want to make some profit. If I manage to remember, I'll buy a bottle of Saumur. Then I'll grade it and post it here. :) -- Shine, enlighten me - shine Shine, awaken me - shine Shine for all your suffering - shine
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Are these missiles Scud or Al-Samud-2? I would wait for several days to have a more reliable answer, I don't trust the media on the Opening Day. Scuds are these missiles derived from the German V2 of 1944, right?
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
Everything is derived from V2s - particularly the US space program ! The tigress is here :-D
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KaЯl wrote: saudis crossed the frontier to fight the US Who? Al-Qaeda folks? ;) It is no surprise, really. Saudis are no longer US buddies. That may be one of the reasons why Iraq is now being invaded. The US needs a friend there...
The borders there are largely political not geographic, so this isn't surprising. Elaine The tigress is here :-D
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Just a question for the French members here ;). If SH was disarmed in '98 and was forbidden to have missles, how come he keeps shooting things he doesn't have into Kuwait? Maybe it was a big slingshot they rigged up quick like a bunny ..... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: Just a question for the French members here . If SH was disarmed in '98 and was forbidden to have missles, how come he keeps shooting things he doesn't have into Kuwait? Maybe it was a big slingshot they rigged up quick like a bunny ..... I wondered about this too, when I saw that he was firing scuds. I looked up some information, and it looks like scuds aren't necessarily prohibited by the UN. Iraq is not allowed to have missiles which travel over 150 km (90 miles). Some scuds can travel further than this limit, but not all of them. (Iraq modified a number of scuds to increase their range - those were the ones they fired at Israel in 1991.) But, the batch of missles which the UN recently told Iraq to destroy - the Al Samoud and Al Fatah missiles - (because it was determined that they could travel upto 180 km), those are also scud missiles. Saddam was in the process of destroying them, but not all of them had been destroyed yet. Hence, when the media says "scud" it really doesn't mean anything because some Scuds are borderline illegal and others are very illegal (like the Scud-B: 185 mile range, the Al-Hussein: 400 miles range, or the Al-Abbas: 560 mile range). If, on the other hand, Saddam manages to get missiles to Israel - then those missiles are obviously outside of UN resolutions, since they have to travel hundreds of miles over Jordan before they would reach Israel. (Keep an eye out for anything like that.) http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/missilerangemap.asp[^] ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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I am very torn here. As I said somewhere earlier, the original coalition and UNSCOM really failed here. When SH began to challenge the original inspections, the coalition should have immediately rectified the situation. But, our governments let us down and allowed this to go on for far too long. Even if the invasion was unavoidable, I would have preferred that it was presented and handled with more patience. GHB did a great job but GWB just "cowboyed up" and isolated us. Man, I wonder if he regrets any of his early aggressive rhetoric? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Totally Agree on all points! Chris Austin wrote: GWB just "cowboyed up" and isolated us. I think to many of his top advisors were on one side. ""
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Chris Losinger wrote: they were forbidden to have missiles that exceeded a certain range. Yes, 93 miles AFAIR. But Scuds are way more powerfull than that! - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
Anders Molin wrote: Yes, 93 miles AFAIR. But Scuds are way more powerfull than that! Depends on which scud you're talking about. The Al-Samoud and Al-Fatah (both Scuds) travel marginally further than the UN limit (150 km). Whereas, some of the missles used in the Gulf War 1 were also scuds, but had much larger ranges (650 km and 900 km). ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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I am very torn here. As I said somewhere earlier, the original coalition and UNSCOM really failed here. When SH began to challenge the original inspections, the coalition should have immediately rectified the situation. But, our governments let us down and allowed this to go on for far too long. Even if the invasion was unavoidable, I would have preferred that it was presented and handled with more patience. GHB did a great job but GWB just "cowboyed up" and isolated us. Man, I wonder if he regrets any of his early aggressive rhetoric? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
I am by no means a fan of GWB, but I do think that 12 years is a long time to wait for a country to disarm itself. Keep in mind that you are talking about a known dictator(SH) that has in the past ordered the deaths of literally hundreds of thousands of innocent people, many of which were his own countrymen. If you ask me, I think that GWB regrets that he couldn't have done something sooner for those people. I like to think of myself as a peacefull person, but I'd like to believe that in a situation of mass oppression of innocent people taking place before all our eyes, I would at least have the courage to do what I know in my heart is right. There, that's my 2 cents worth Daniel E. Blanchard
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Jason Henderson wrote: Saddam was not cooperating. If Saddam would have surrendered himself, this would be over by now. exactly. because it's really about regime change, not WMDs. i'm glad you see it too. -c
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they aren't firing Scuds. refresh your browser. i take that back. i just heard the military has said that they were "medium-range" missiles. which probably makes them Scuds. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: i take that back. i just heard the military has said that they were "medium-range" missiles. which probably makes them Scuds. Or Al-Sumud 2, Al-Fatah (2), Frog 7 or chinise/nk model.
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Everything is derived from V2s - particularly the US space program ! The tigress is here :-D
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Doug Goulden wrote: Just a question for the French members here . If SH was disarmed in '98 and was forbidden to have missles, how come he keeps shooting things he doesn't have into Kuwait? Maybe it was a big slingshot they rigged up quick like a bunny ..... I wondered about this too, when I saw that he was firing scuds. I looked up some information, and it looks like scuds aren't necessarily prohibited by the UN. Iraq is not allowed to have missiles which travel over 150 km (90 miles). Some scuds can travel further than this limit, but not all of them. (Iraq modified a number of scuds to increase their range - those were the ones they fired at Israel in 1991.) But, the batch of missles which the UN recently told Iraq to destroy - the Al Samoud and Al Fatah missiles - (because it was determined that they could travel upto 180 km), those are also scud missiles. Saddam was in the process of destroying them, but not all of them had been destroyed yet. Hence, when the media says "scud" it really doesn't mean anything because some Scuds are borderline illegal and others are very illegal (like the Scud-B: 185 mile range, the Al-Hussein: 400 miles range, or the Al-Abbas: 560 mile range). If, on the other hand, Saddam manages to get missiles to Israel - then those missiles are obviously outside of UN resolutions, since they have to travel hundreds of miles over Jordan before they would reach Israel. (Keep an eye out for anything like that.) http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/missilerangemap.asp[^] ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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then how do you explain the fact that the neocons have wanted to do this since Bush 1 ? -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: but did GWB need to do it in such a way as to give a reason to the other 190+ countries I think that IF it is done right, the US and the UK and other nations that work together can show that people will no longer stand by and watch silently while there is evil in the world. Thats sounds simplistic, but I think when people hear the Iraqi people's side of the story, we will come out with a better world opinion. The interesting thing is that a lot of the Eastern European nations are supportive of the attack, I wonder if they have a deeper understanding of what the Iraqi people are going through and what SH is about. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: a lot of the Eastern European nations clarify that: a lot of eastern European governments are supportive. as far as citizen support goes, only two countries are reported to have majority support for the war... guess which countries... come on, guess... USA and Israel. -c
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