What is so bad/wrong/terrible about Windows 8.1?
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What you've got there is a bad case of unchecked I.T. administrator arrogance. (Heyyyy here's something that'll make my job a teensy bit easier... And screw the people whose work it trashes, they stepped away from their computer, so fsck them.)
Umm, no... Home machine, not work. That's out-of-the-box behavior, courtesy of Lenovo
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Y'know what's really funny? I still have a Vista PC in use, mainly as a file server, but I still sometimes sit at it. I think I'm one of the nine people in the world who didn't have a problem with Vista -- the only thing I objected to was the "wow factor", but the first time I booted the PC, it asked me if I wanted the "wow factor" cr@p, I said "NO!", and it never bothered me about it again. It was lovely and fast, with all that memory that was added to handle the "wow" being freed up.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Vista is the most beautiful Windows ever. It is not as polished in the details as XP was, but compared to W7... well, W7 has the chunky taskbar, baby steps to touch, has the single panel borders in Windows Explorer while they can be resized with mouse. It has icons changed to text - cost cutting, time constraint, touch support - who knows? Vista had the same poised Start menu - just leave the mouse over All programs while looking for a frequently used program...
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Two MAJOR issues: Usability! Win 8 is a totally different paradigm that Win 7. For a laptop and the Windows Phone the Tiles were cute, but for a Corporate environment, no one really wants to work like that. Security! Win 8 has gone completely overboard with security. As a developer your app can only write to it's own folder or the cloud... so I can't build an app that write app that write to another app's folder.. something I've done in the past.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
The corporate environment is full of dashboards, Metro apps born for that. It is full with restrictions (or downtime for removing viruses), too. Added: and full with longing for full screen, single apps the users can't switch from.
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Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote:
People try to hate new things and changes in the beginning... Then they accept them!
Yup. Windows Vista, OS/2, WebTV, the G4 Cube, Google Buzz, the Newton, Net PC, PCjr, and, of course, Clippy... History is riddled with examples.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Clippy is called Cortana now, headline feature of W10, with jobs outside of Office. The name implies boobs so the reception from the average developers will be astonishing.
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
Another thing that hardly anyone mentions which I find extremely helpful is how Windows 8 integrated the Microsoft Account (aka Live account). At work with AD, we don't think about it too much, but at home with my laptop, desktop, tablet and phone (yes, all Windows 8.1), all of my contacts, calendars, email accounts (outlook/live/Hotmail or not), passwords, browsing history and files on OneDrive are all synced up. I actually used to run Windows Server so I could use AD at home years ago, but now with Microsoft Account integration, I feel like I have AD everywhere. And if your significant others are using Microsoft Accounts, then sharing files and calendars becomes easy. But I still find a lot of people just hate Window 8.1, but so many of these are the kind of people who still believe that they have to use the pop mail account that their ISP provides or they're the kind of folks who share email address w/ their significant others.
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
Is the layout different? Yes, but the layout was different going from a green screen in college to Windows 3, and then again on Windows 95... Change is constant.
Ah, but it doesn't have to be. It's a balancing act, between progress (change is good!) and what is already good and familiar (change is bad!) I see it as kind of like the progression of cooking (speaking from personal experience here...) DOS and earlier were kind of like PB&J sandwiches. Basic, but kept you fed. Windows 3/3.1 etc were like microwave ramen. Slightly more difficult to make, but still, kept you fed. Windows 95 was a step up to grilled cheese. Getting better, but still, not all that great. Windows 98 was adding ham to that grilled cheese. Windows 2000 was pairing cream of tomato soup with that grilled ham and cheese. Windows ME was back to ramen. Windows XP was a medium sirloin with a loaded baked potato. Close, but not quite there yet. Windows 7 was a perfectly cooked rare filet mignon with a loaded baked potato and asparagus with hollandaise. Perfection. Now Windows 8... That is like you took a look at that beautiful meal that was Windows 7... And got greedy. You said 'I want more. I can do better.' But what you ended up with was an over-seasoned, over-cooked, filet, a potato with flavors that don't pair well, and hollandaise with a consistency that more closely resembles cold butter, than maple syrup. All because you couldn't leave well enough alone. Now your wife is upset with you because you ruined her favorite meal, and you had to order pizza. Progress only comes from experimentation, and we certainly learn more from our failures than our successes. Still, you have to learn when to leave well enough alone. Microsoft has been in business long enough now that they should have already learned that lesson.
You had me at hollandaise!
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
Here is one, Scrolling. I live with someone who due to a disability can't use multitouch or a mouse with a scroll wheel. So she uses the scroll bar. Windows in it's infinite wisdom stuck the scroll bar on the right, and made the exact same area the activation for that pop out drawer. To make it worse, all windows default to full screen, and in metro, you can't pull the windows off of that border. She can still scroll. Move the pointer to the scroll bar wait for the pop out move the pointer away wait for the drawer to time out move the pointer to the exact spot, going too far will cause the drawer to pop out again. click. You went too far? start the song and dance all over again. Try it out, On windows 8, tape over your scroll wheel, feel the frustration.
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Member 10707677 wrote:
Swipe in from right edge is extremely difficult when no touch screen device is attached.
Try Win + C on the keyboard.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Most of the command-control functions are disabled on the international home version. I discovered this 5 days after my system was delivered with the wrong OS onboard. (I got home version when pro version was specified.) Six months later, I'm still sifting through the chaos. It's alot of encounter-a-problem, Google-a-solution,[WinK-C]-do-the-fix.
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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Clippy is called Cortana now, headline feature of W10, with jobs outside of Office. The name implies boobs so the reception from the average developers will be astonishing.
Peter Adam wrote:
headline feature of W10
I have yet to see a headline feature of W10 that inspires me to do more than look away with a "meh". This cortana is a feature that I won't even install, unless it does not give me the option to skip it. nb. returning what they removed for w8 doesn't count as adding features, AFAIC.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Another thing that hardly anyone mentions which I find extremely helpful is how Windows 8 integrated the Microsoft Account (aka Live account). At work with AD, we don't think about it too much, but at home with my laptop, desktop, tablet and phone (yes, all Windows 8.1), all of my contacts, calendars, email accounts (outlook/live/Hotmail or not), passwords, browsing history and files on OneDrive are all synced up. I actually used to run Windows Server so I could use AD at home years ago, but now with Microsoft Account integration, I feel like I have AD everywhere. And if your significant others are using Microsoft Accounts, then sharing files and calendars becomes easy. But I still find a lot of people just hate Window 8.1, but so many of these are the kind of people who still believe that they have to use the pop mail account that their ISP provides or they're the kind of folks who share email address w/ their significant others.
Your solution only works if all devices use the same or similar operating systems. Additionally, you are opening yourself to one of the biggest of privacy invasion gaps. I'm used to a mixture of operating systems (Windows, Android, *ux, Non-stop). Google provides more of an all-purpose solution. Even then I'm very cautious.
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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Your solution only works if all devices use the same or similar operating systems. Additionally, you are opening yourself to one of the biggest of privacy invasion gaps. I'm used to a mixture of operating systems (Windows, Android, *ux, Non-stop). Google provides more of an all-purpose solution. Even then I'm very cautious.
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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Google provides more of an all-purpose solution.
So you're saying that you can log onto your Windows 8, Windows 7, Linux and Android, iOS and Windows Phone devices using the same gmail account? Google does not offer that, and I wouldn't expect them to. Furthermore, what they do offer is not significantly better than Outlook.com, Office.com or Skype. Hangouts would be nice, but they just don't want to offer that in the same way Microsoft offers Office and Skype for Android and iOS.
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Additionally, you are opening yourself to one of the biggest of privacy invasion gaps.
Care to back that up?
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
Ok, so the bottom line with me is that I have a Windows 8/8.1 tablet computer (Acer R7). Love the computer HATE the OS. Why? It locks regularly and maybe unfreezes after 15 minutes. Else a hard boot. The file system operations sloooooooow down massively for unknown reasons. I have to reboot it once or twice a day to "fix" it. Software updates are fairly regularly via Windows Update but routinely involve 1 GB+ file package sizes. I regret having Windows 8 on my PC. I upgraded to 8.1 and still have these problems. I would dearly love to downgrade to Windows 7 for stability reasons but that's a complete reload and I have to use old drivers from other machines that may or may not work. Bottom Line: Avoid Windows 8.1 unless you need touch screen support or specifically need 8.1. Use good old reliable Windows 7 instead. And if you must use 8.1 get Stardock's Start8 for the Start Button bring back. - Grant
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Umm, no... Home machine, not work. That's out-of-the-box behavior, courtesy of Lenovo
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)So... the administrator works at Lenovo, setting those defaults. Maybe it was the same person that installed the giant advertisement pushing security hole, maybe just part of the team.
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After asking a question on how to upgrade to 8.1 a lot of respectable :bob:ians have told me that it was a bad idea doing that (going from 7 to 8.1) and of course, I've wondered what is so terrible about it as it Works for me... So here's another question: why 7 is much better tan 8.1 or if you prefer... why 8.1 is as terrible compared to 7? Please don't start flame wars or similar... everyone has its opinion and it must be respected. I'll start: windows 8 pro's: - Internet explorer 11 knows that it has to change it's spell check when you change the input language. - You can pause large file operations. - It starts really fast. - When you start several copy operations all of them are stacked onto one single dialog. - Once you know that windows+c shortcut getting into the control panel is a breeze. - In a multi display environment you have the task bar in all the displays and then you can reach all your open programs from any display and show the start menu in the display you are looking at... windows 7 pro's: - start menu is much better. ...
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
I don't know so many people are against it. I quite like Win 8/8.1 and some of the changes coming in Win 10 annoy me because they're going 'backwards'. I like the new start screen (always hated the old start menu) - though the visible button in the corner to access it in 8.1 is sensible for new users. I love Metro IE too.I use Win 8/8.1 mostly on a non-touch laptop for work and non-touch desktop for home, occasionally on a Surface Pro 1. I have no issues. Likewise I had very few problems with Vista which everyone hated, and basically see Win 7 as Vista with lipstick but no one else really admits that. Not every change is going to suit every person, or every workflow so I can understand some people being upset but it seems like a lot of other people are just anti-change or jumping on the bandwagon. One small problem with 8/8.1 is I find the 'close' gesture for metro apps is very difficult for most people using touch (and they don't know how with the mouse). They either don't drag far enough or the system doesn't register the interaction the right way (usually does with the mouse to be fair). The new title bars kind of fix that, but I personally dislike them. Also, sadly, the 'store' is filled with crap. I would love to use more Metro apps, but there are so few that are actually any good I don't bother with most.
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Google provides more of an all-purpose solution.
So you're saying that you can log onto your Windows 8, Windows 7, Linux and Android, iOS and Windows Phone devices using the same gmail account? Google does not offer that, and I wouldn't expect them to. Furthermore, what they do offer is not significantly better than Outlook.com, Office.com or Skype. Hangouts would be nice, but they just don't want to offer that in the same way Microsoft offers Office and Skype for Android and iOS.
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Additionally, you are opening yourself to one of the biggest of privacy invasion gaps.
Care to back that up?
I don't use Google to log into the operating system. Google only maintains my calendar, contacts and any reference documents I consider of minimal security risk. Anything of importance is usually carried on my person in the form of an encrypted memory stick. Social networking, including this forum, is kept to a minimum. My Windows platform is primarily a word/spreadsheet processing station with graphics/gaming thrown in for recreational purposes. Due to certain performance issues, I don't use Outlook or Skype. For email, I prefer to rely on the email server packages associated with my email accounts and access those using whatever browser is available on the platform I am using. (Business is kept separate from personal.)
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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I don't use Google to log into the operating system. Google only maintains my calendar, contacts and any reference documents I consider of minimal security risk. Anything of importance is usually carried on my person in the form of an encrypted memory stick. Social networking, including this forum, is kept to a minimum. My Windows platform is primarily a word/spreadsheet processing station with graphics/gaming thrown in for recreational purposes. Due to certain performance issues, I don't use Outlook or Skype. For email, I prefer to rely on the email server packages associated with my email accounts and access those using whatever browser is available on the platform I am using. (Business is kept separate from personal.)
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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I don't use Google to log into the operating system.
So then how is your comment relevant much less comparable to being able to log onto various instances of an operating system which was my point in the first place? Also, I'm not sure why you would mention Outlook. I was talking about Outlook.com.
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
Is the layout different? Yes, but the layout was different going from a green screen in college to Windows 3, and then again on Windows 95... Change is constant.
Ah, but it doesn't have to be. It's a balancing act, between progress (change is good!) and what is already good and familiar (change is bad!) I see it as kind of like the progression of cooking (speaking from personal experience here...) DOS and earlier were kind of like PB&J sandwiches. Basic, but kept you fed. Windows 3/3.1 etc were like microwave ramen. Slightly more difficult to make, but still, kept you fed. Windows 95 was a step up to grilled cheese. Getting better, but still, not all that great. Windows 98 was adding ham to that grilled cheese. Windows 2000 was pairing cream of tomato soup with that grilled ham and cheese. Windows ME was back to ramen. Windows XP was a medium sirloin with a loaded baked potato. Close, but not quite there yet. Windows 7 was a perfectly cooked rare filet mignon with a loaded baked potato and asparagus with hollandaise. Perfection. Now Windows 8... That is like you took a look at that beautiful meal that was Windows 7... And got greedy. You said 'I want more. I can do better.' But what you ended up with was an over-seasoned, over-cooked, filet, a potato with flavors that don't pair well, and hollandaise with a consistency that more closely resembles cold butter, than maple syrup. All because you couldn't leave well enough alone. Now your wife is upset with you because you ruined her favorite meal, and you had to order pizza. Progress only comes from experimentation, and we certainly learn more from our failures than our successes. Still, you have to learn when to leave well enough alone. Microsoft has been in business long enough now that they should have already learned that lesson.
Kyle Moyer wrote:
Windows ME was back to ramen.
Windows ME was stale overcooked ramen and someone forgot to include the flavor packet.
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Member 4724084 wrote:
A professional chef will toy around with things til they are to his liking and then he will use guinea pigs to see if other people like it.
But if I pay full price for an OS, I am not paying to be a guinea pig; I am paying for a completed, working product. If they want me to beta test, we can arrange for a method for them to pay me for my time. Mind you, if they had to pay everyone for the time wasted by Win 8 and the ribbon, they'd be bankrupt before they got a tenth of the way through the list. And you could say that win 10 is just the latest in a line of re-corned-beef-hashes of Win '95; the list of equivalences isn't short. Vista was a small branch into a different direction; Win 8 is a huge branch into a different direction. Both branches broke a perfectly stable tree.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
It was a complete working product, but it was not to the liking of the general public so the cooking method was changed. That's the point I am making. Vista was a complete working product, people had issues with the amount of intrusive security, so the source code was tweaked to make those security tasks less intrusive, it is no different than taking a rack of ribs, and broiling them rather than BBQing them. Vista and Win 7 is the exact same product, just cooked differently. Using your tree analogy, the trunk is MSFT, each branch is a different variant of Windows. Some branches become forked into smaller branches, others do not. Vista is a branch in the tree, win 7 was forked off Vista. Win 8.x is a new branch and Win 10 is forked off that branch, it is literally no different than going from 3 to 3.1. True, when people see a new branch they have trepidations, wether it can hold the weight etc, but when people realise the branch is stable and can hold the weight they will inevitably climb onto it and see the view is better from higher up. Honestly, I personally cannot see what the big deal regarding win 8, it was not a learning curve, the keyboard/mouse functionality is no different to any other variant of windows, the start screen is just a giant full screen start menu with slightly more functionality, that you are presented with on boot. This makes sense because the first thing people did after booting a windows machine was double click on a shortcut or go to the start menu. I really don't understand why people are griping that the process is one keystroke/mouse click shorter. If you don't like the 'metro' version of applications then unpin them and pin the desktop variants, it's a simplified variant of removing items from a win 7 start menu and creating shortcuts to others.
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I don't use Google to log into the operating system.
So then how is your comment relevant much less comparable to being able to log onto various instances of an operating system which was my point in the first place? Also, I'm not sure why you would mention Outlook. I was talking about Outlook.com.
Your initial comment was about Active Directory and its portability through a single operating system. Outlook.com and Office.com are just extensions of AD. I get much of the same portability through Google. As to the mention of Outlook vs Outlook.com, Outlook is a POP3 client that works with the POP3 server at Outlook.com. By using the email server packages, I reduce the overheads associated with the email client and better manage my business. If you have multiple email accounts, Outlook is NOT the way to go.
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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For me, it's a matter of not being able to really get there. I am on a service pack on Windows 8.0, as an upgrade from Windows 7. After three several hour attempts to upgrade to Windows 8.1, it fails with an esoteric blue screen crash, and takes a few more hours to roll itself back. I loathe Windows 8.0, primarily for its flakiness and app incompatibility, but I cannot move the box forwards or backwards without wiping it. I'll use Windows as required at work, but this box killer, plus Dell laptops now shipping with Ubuntu, means I'll never personally buy a Windows device again. {end mini-rant}
The app and driver incompatibility in regards to Vista comes down to vendor laziness, no different to how it was in Vista. Vista came out, vendors scrambled to catch up. The only real thing to blame there is the length of time before it was released, vendors got lazy, thought Vista was just vapour ware that would never get released then BOOM! everyone has to scramble to catch up. You use Dell machines? Well there's your problem. They are notoriously flaky, have had numerous issues with some variant of malware being cooked into their firmware, some 95% of machines requiring after market hardware maintenance etc. There is a very big reason why Michael Dell bought out the public shares and made the company private again.
