These religious wars never (will) end!
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Language is only a medium of expression, especially a computer language. It is good to start with one language, and become familiar with its features. But after some years, one should transcend language, and focus on the problem to be solved / resolved. After all, the pretty GUIs which people see can be made to work with any language behind, isn't it?
Avijnata wrote:
Language is only a medium of expression, especially a computer language.
I think that the idea that a "computer language" is analogous to a human spoken, and/or written, language is a terribly mis-leading, and superficial, cultural construct (meme). An invidious comparison of something with astounding depth and dimensionality with something relatively shallow, and one-dimensional. The question of whether language is something that can be "transcended" is also philosophically challenging, suggesting an infinite regress: do we ever have knowledge independent of our encoding of that knowledge ... whether that encoding is glyphs, syllables (morphemes) translated in the mind to patterns of neuronal linkage and activation (phonemes) ... and so forth. In terms of programming, I've seen brilliant bottom-up self-taught programmers who seemed to almost have "extrasensory" powers, and, I've seen programmers with advanced degrees from places like Stanford who thought in terms of Backus-Knorr diagrams and Design-Patterns who were remarkably un-productive working on real-world products. From those two extremes I do not infer anything about the average, the mode, or the median :)
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
The expression "garbage in, garbage out" is one side of the coin. "bad programmer in, bad program out" is the other side.
That is a signature-quotable Marcism if I've ever seen one ! Congratulations. I am tempted to say that: if the hand that holds the coin is ignorant enough they may not even know which side of the coin is which, let alone the denomination of the coin. But, I decided not to say that. Whilst reading your remarks a little voice in my head kept reminding me of your recent (excellent) rants about working in Ruby, but I think those were by the other Marc :) cheers, Bill
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
BillWoodruff wrote:
But, I decided not to say that.
Well said. :)
BillWoodruff wrote:
but I think those were by the other Marc
There's at least one evil twin, but like Calvin (& Hobbes) it's hard to distinguish the clones from the real McCoy. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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You think a Rocket Propelled Grenade might improve code quality? Could be right if you aim it at QA querists... :-D
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Classic RPG won't even scratch their surfaces; you need RPG IV at the very least :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
All hail the Universal Turing Machine! Any language that attempts to abstract away its pure beauty is a tool of the Devil, and should be expunged from the face of the planet! ;-)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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Classic RPG won't even scratch their surfaces; you need RPG IV at the very least :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
Some are indeed rather thick skinned. Thick everything, some of 'em. And others are so thin skinned it's surprising they can wear clothes without being flayed every time they move... :sigh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
I'm with C as well.
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Avijnata wrote:
Language is only a medium of expression, especially a computer language.
I think that the idea that a "computer language" is analogous to a human spoken, and/or written, language is a terribly mis-leading, and superficial, cultural construct (meme). An invidious comparison of something with astounding depth and dimensionality with something relatively shallow, and one-dimensional. The question of whether language is something that can be "transcended" is also philosophically challenging, suggesting an infinite regress: do we ever have knowledge independent of our encoding of that knowledge ... whether that encoding is glyphs, syllables (morphemes) translated in the mind to patterns of neuronal linkage and activation (phonemes) ... and so forth. In terms of programming, I've seen brilliant bottom-up self-taught programmers who seemed to almost have "extrasensory" powers, and, I've seen programmers with advanced degrees from places like Stanford who thought in terms of Backus-Knorr diagrams and Design-Patterns who were remarkably un-productive working on real-world products. From those two extremes I do not infer anything about the average, the mode, or the median :)
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
#YOLO Linus got #SWAG fo sho! The average, the mode and the median of our two posts is now readable English :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Mr. Torvalds may be the super smart creator of Linux and Git (quite a feat, I'll give him that!), he's still an asshole :) The best mr. Kakurin could've done was just ignore such rudeness. By the way, I believe mr. Torvalds is aware that he's an asshole and he's pretty much okay with it.
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Always surpassed when people focus on Mr. Torvalds' public responses and characterise him as an a**hole. They ignore the stupidity and obvious condescension of the comments he is rebutting as if it were OK to be an a**hole if you haven't created software as significant as Linux or Git. I suspect this is why Mr Torvalds is OK with being an a**hole himself. 'The best mr. Kakurin could've done was just ignore such rudeness.' I would suggest it would be more appropriate to say 'the best thing Mr. Torvalds could do is ignore such rudeness'. But sadly in this case, as with most others, the 'bitch slap' was well and truly earned.
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Always surpassed when people focus on Mr. Torvalds' public responses and characterise him as an a**hole. They ignore the stupidity and obvious condescension of the comments he is rebutting as if it were OK to be an a**hole if you haven't created software as significant as Linux or Git. I suspect this is why Mr Torvalds is OK with being an a**hole himself. 'The best mr. Kakurin could've done was just ignore such rudeness.' I would suggest it would be more appropriate to say 'the best thing Mr. Torvalds could do is ignore such rudeness'. But sadly in this case, as with most others, the 'bitch slap' was well and truly earned.
Climate Turnip wrote:
the best thing Mr. Torvalds could do is ignore such rudeness
I read the original message by mr. Kakurin again, and indeed, it was rude. So I guess you're right, but either way, because they both took the battle head on, they're now both assholes :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
