Chalk one up...
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Its a shame that the horrible US used its repressive tactics to force her to show her face. That terrorist GWB probably ripped the burqa right off her. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Though it also has to be said that the US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. I wonder what will happen to Iraq. Just a comment :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
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Though it also has to be said that the US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. I wonder what will happen to Iraq. Just a comment :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Yeah, but we're in the middle of a war. It would be disappointing if after this all settles GWB didn't follow through, but I don't think that'll happen. We'll see. Jeremy Falcon "so be it, threaten no more, to secure peace is to prepare for war" - Metallica
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Though it also has to be said that the US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. I wonder what will happen to Iraq. Just a comment :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Paul Watson wrote: Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. Very few countries are mentioned by name, as most of the (State Department) budget is structured as a series of different "programs" (Millenium Challenge Account, Emergency Fund for Complex Foreign Crises, Anti-terrorism Fund, International De-Mining Fund, etc.). Budgeting a specific line item ammout for a given country is generally avoided, as this would also limit expenditures to the line item ammount. State uses a lot of mumbo-jumbo terminology to "stay flexible":):~ :confused: I am confident that the US will not repeat its past stupidity with Afganistan ( a good bit of the reconstruction is presently funded under the Defense Budget: "military infrastructure construction...", and under direct contributions to International agencies doing the work). Competition for funds from Iraq will be a problem though... It would seem the International Community expects that the US will foot the whole bill, since they are the "aggressors". Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
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Yeah, but we're in the middle of a war. It would be disappointing if after this all settles GWB didn't follow through, but I don't think that'll happen. We'll see. Jeremy Falcon "so be it, threaten no more, to secure peace is to prepare for war" - Metallica
Firstly if the States thought it could not follow up on it's Afghanistan commitments because of an Iraq war, it should have delayed the Iraq war. Currently, wether they intended it or not, the Iraq war is totally overshadowing an unfinished state of play in Afghanistan, which is wrong. It just bodes badly for the perceptions of American intentions. We know America wants to do what it wants and that we don't factor, but the above is how I see it and it just causes us to distrust America even more (which Americans can't seem to get their heads around.) Just telling you how the rest of us feel. :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
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Though it also has to be said that the US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. I wonder what will happen to Iraq. Just a comment :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
The US is still there, helping to provide security and keep the Taliban and Al Quada from retaking the country. The rest of the world will criticize us, but when it comes down to it the US has been the country that has gotten things done now for the last 80 years. Not to say we haven't made our mistakes and done some things wrong..... But hey we could bring our 60,000 troops out of South Korea, lets see how the people of South Korea would like that, or the Japanese. Think that North Korea would mind us leaving? Think the UN would protect Seoul? We could have left Western Germany, when there was such a thing, after WW2 and let Berlin fall during the Berlin airlift. We could have relied on our oceans to protect us during WW2 and just defended our own shores. Like I said we might have some problems of our own but we beat the hell outta whoever is in second place. We will help Afghanistan and we can't leave Iraq in the lurch ever again. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Paul Watson wrote: Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. Very few countries are mentioned by name, as most of the (State Department) budget is structured as a series of different "programs" (Millenium Challenge Account, Emergency Fund for Complex Foreign Crises, Anti-terrorism Fund, International De-Mining Fund, etc.). Budgeting a specific line item ammout for a given country is generally avoided, as this would also limit expenditures to the line item ammount. State uses a lot of mumbo-jumbo terminology to "stay flexible":):~ :confused: I am confident that the US will not repeat its past stupidity with Afganistan ( a good bit of the reconstruction is presently funded under the Defense Budget: "military infrastructure construction...", and under direct contributions to International agencies doing the work). Competition for funds from Iraq will be a problem though... It would seem the International Community expects that the US will foot the whole bill, since they are the "aggressors". Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
Rob Graham wrote: It would seem the International Community expects that the US will foot the whole bill, since they are the "aggressors". And you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
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Rob Graham wrote: It would seem the International Community expects that the US will foot the whole bill, since they are the "aggressors". And you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Rob Graham wrote: It would seem the International Community expects that the US will foot the whole bill, since they are the "aggressors". Paul Watson wrote: And you disagree? It would be disengenuous at best to suggest that the US was not an aggressor in Iraq.:) I would, however, not object if the US chose to subtract all or part of the cost from its UN contributions, nor if the "oil for Food" fund were actually used to purchase food and medical supplies for the Iraqi people (for a change)... :rose: Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. - Elbert Hubbard
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Though it also has to be said that the US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. I wonder what will happen to Iraq. Just a comment :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Paul Watson wrote: US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Here is a radical idea. Why not have France, Germany, Russia and China pay for the rebuilding. After all, they're getting off cheaply on the liberating. Just a comment :) Mike Mullikin :beer:
"I'm not calling you a liar but....I can't think of a way to finish that sentence." - Bart Simpson
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The US is still there, helping to provide security and keep the Taliban and Al Quada from retaking the country. The rest of the world will criticize us, but when it comes down to it the US has been the country that has gotten things done now for the last 80 years. Not to say we haven't made our mistakes and done some things wrong..... But hey we could bring our 60,000 troops out of South Korea, lets see how the people of South Korea would like that, or the Japanese. Think that North Korea would mind us leaving? Think the UN would protect Seoul? We could have left Western Germany, when there was such a thing, after WW2 and let Berlin fall during the Berlin airlift. We could have relied on our oceans to protect us during WW2 and just defended our own shores. Like I said we might have some problems of our own but we beat the hell outta whoever is in second place. We will help Afghanistan and we can't leave Iraq in the lurch ever again. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Very good points and I totally agree. In another point, the US did not flatten Afghanistan so there isn't much to 're-build'
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Paul Watson wrote: US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Here is a radical idea. Why not have France, Germany, Russia and China pay for the rebuilding. After all, they're getting off cheaply on the liberating. Just a comment :) Mike Mullikin :beer:
"I'm not calling you a liar but....I can't think of a way to finish that sentence." - Bart Simpson
Mike Mullikin wrote: Why not have France, Germany, Russia and China pay for the rebuilding. After all, they're getting off cheaply on the liberating. Aren't those countries paying towards the rebuilding of Afghanistan?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
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...for democracy and freedom. :) I saw on news yesterday (sorry, I could not find a link, I saw it on TV) a group of delegates from Afghanistan visiting India. They are here to get training on forming their judiciary. Fine. Here comes the good part. One of the members of the delegation is a woman. I forgot her name. :( Anyway, she was able to walk around without a "burqa" after a lot of years, and work shoulder to shoulder (is that a phrase?) with men! Cool, isn't it? After the end of the Taliban regime, people are feeling much happier I'm sure, as was evident from their faces. The woman I am talking about was feeling very confident of herself, and was happy that she could finally establish her own identity. No more burqa, no more shying away from men. Show the world what women can do. Not supressed any more. Breathe freely in the open air. Get out of the kitchen and bedroom and into offices and open places. :) :cool: I felt very happy after watching it. Any one else got similar stories to share?
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: After the end of the Taliban regime, people are feeling much happier I'm sure, as was evident from their faces. Not agreed at all. Only those people are happy who were in minoriy (commonly known as Northern Alliance) and currently ruling so called "democratic" Afghanistan. Majority of Afghan population is in the southern part of the country and having their views entirely different from northern minority. All the people who are given wide publicity on various news and television networks are those who belongs to northern Afghanistan where only 7% of total population lives. I had never seen any report about "changed" people from Southern Afghanistan. Rohit Sinha wrote: The woman I am talking about was feeling very confident of herself, and was happy that she could finally establish her own identity. In your country, my country and all the other countries, before marriage a girl is is regognized by her father's name and after marriage is recognized by her husband's name. It is a basic principle of Islam that a woman should be recognized by her own name any not by her father's or husband's name. This principle today is not followed even in muslim countries. Only Talibans given them this identity, which unfortunately ended. And according to you they are "happy" with "new" identity. WOW Rohit Sinha wrote: Anyway, she was able to walk around without a "burqa" Burqa is a part of Afghan culture, which is there for ages and people are still following there culture. Few have thrown it away and they are those who belong to ruling northern alliance and are historically tilted towards Russian culture. Even those Afghans refugees who are living in various localities of modern cities in Pakistan for 15 yrs are follwing their own culture. Yes CNN or Times Magazine may show something else. Note: Please don't think that i am Taliban supporter
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Why not have France, Germany, Russia and China pay for the rebuilding. After all, they're getting off cheaply on the liberating. Aren't those countries paying towards the rebuilding of Afghanistan?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Yeah they're supplying weapons to the warlords ...... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Rohit Sinha wrote: After the end of the Taliban regime, people are feeling much happier I'm sure, as was evident from their faces. Not agreed at all. Only those people are happy who were in minoriy (commonly known as Northern Alliance) and currently ruling so called "democratic" Afghanistan. Majority of Afghan population is in the southern part of the country and having their views entirely different from northern minority. All the people who are given wide publicity on various news and television networks are those who belongs to northern Afghanistan where only 7% of total population lives. I had never seen any report about "changed" people from Southern Afghanistan. Rohit Sinha wrote: The woman I am talking about was feeling very confident of herself, and was happy that she could finally establish her own identity. In your country, my country and all the other countries, before marriage a girl is is regognized by her father's name and after marriage is recognized by her husband's name. It is a basic principle of Islam that a woman should be recognized by her own name any not by her father's or husband's name. This principle today is not followed even in muslim countries. Only Talibans given them this identity, which unfortunately ended. And according to you they are "happy" with "new" identity. WOW Rohit Sinha wrote: Anyway, she was able to walk around without a "burqa" Burqa is a part of Afghan culture, which is there for ages and people are still following there culture. Few have thrown it away and they are those who belong to ruling northern alliance and are historically tilted towards Russian culture. Even those Afghans refugees who are living in various localities of modern cities in Pakistan for 15 yrs are follwing their own culture. Yes CNN or Times Magazine may show something else. Note: Please don't think that i am Taliban supporter
I was not commenting on whether it was right or wrong, only that the women are now free to make their own decisions, which IMO is a good thing. The regime of fear has ended. If they want people to follow the teachings of Islam, they should convince and teach them, not force them. Imran Farooqui wrote: In your country, my country and all the other countries, before marriage a girl is is regognized by her father's name and after marriage is recognized by her husband's name. It is a basic principle of Islam that a woman should be recognized by her own name any not by her father's or husband's name. This principle today is not followed even in muslim countries. Only Talibans given them this identity, which unfortunately ended. And according to you they are "happy" with "new" identity. WOW No, Imran, identity is not just about whose name you adopt. It is about asserting yourself. Standing up for yourself and bringing out your true self, unrestrained, unconstrained and unchained. If Islam lets women be recognized by their own name, it is a very good thing IMO and should be encouraged. The "Mehar" thing is also good in a way. I'm sure there are many more such good things. But not at the cost of a regime of fear and oppression. What good is your own name, if only one person knows it, and that too inside the kitchen where you cook his food and in the bedroom where you warm his bed? And on the burqa issue, I'm not saying that it's a good thing she's not wearing it. Whether she wears it or not is up to her. But now she has a choice. That's what I'm happy about.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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I was not commenting on whether it was right or wrong, only that the women are now free to make their own decisions, which IMO is a good thing. The regime of fear has ended. If they want people to follow the teachings of Islam, they should convince and teach them, not force them. Imran Farooqui wrote: In your country, my country and all the other countries, before marriage a girl is is regognized by her father's name and after marriage is recognized by her husband's name. It is a basic principle of Islam that a woman should be recognized by her own name any not by her father's or husband's name. This principle today is not followed even in muslim countries. Only Talibans given them this identity, which unfortunately ended. And according to you they are "happy" with "new" identity. WOW No, Imran, identity is not just about whose name you adopt. It is about asserting yourself. Standing up for yourself and bringing out your true self, unrestrained, unconstrained and unchained. If Islam lets women be recognized by their own name, it is a very good thing IMO and should be encouraged. The "Mehar" thing is also good in a way. I'm sure there are many more such good things. But not at the cost of a regime of fear and oppression. What good is your own name, if only one person knows it, and that too inside the kitchen where you cook his food and in the bedroom where you warm his bed? And on the burqa issue, I'm not saying that it's a good thing she's not wearing it. Whether she wears it or not is up to her. But now she has a choice. That's what I'm happy about.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Hi Rohit !! Have they reached India (i mean your cricket team). What was the public reaction when they entered airport lounge ?? Because of Iraq issue all other news are under shadows. Thats why i am asking you ? Our team is still under tight security
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Hi Rohit !! Have they reached India (i mean your cricket team). What was the public reaction when they entered airport lounge ?? Because of Iraq issue all other news are under shadows. Thats why i am asking you ? Our team is still under tight security
Yes, they reached yesterday. The public greeted them well. Everyone was happy that we were at least able to reach the final. The last time we did that was in 1983. :rolleyes: Sorry to hear about your team. There were some fine players in your team. I heard that eight of them were sent out of the team. IMO they need support, not replacement. The players are very good. People just need to show faith in them. But then the Pak Cricket Board would know better than me, and I trust they have made a decision in the best interest of Pak Cricket, keeping in view the future.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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Very good points and I totally agree. In another point, the US did not flatten Afghanistan so there isn't much to 're-build'
Unfortunatly the country was already pretty flattened :( Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Yeah, but we're in the middle of a war. It would be disappointing if after this all settles GWB didn't follow through, but I don't think that'll happen. We'll see. Jeremy Falcon "so be it, threaten no more, to secure peace is to prepare for war" - Metallica
Sadly, this is what usually happens. The amount of aid required is a fraction of the money used for the Iraq war. The tigress is here :-D
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Rohit Sinha wrote: After the end of the Taliban regime, people are feeling much happier I'm sure, as was evident from their faces. Not agreed at all. Only those people are happy who were in minoriy (commonly known as Northern Alliance) and currently ruling so called "democratic" Afghanistan. Majority of Afghan population is in the southern part of the country and having their views entirely different from northern minority. All the people who are given wide publicity on various news and television networks are those who belongs to northern Afghanistan where only 7% of total population lives. I had never seen any report about "changed" people from Southern Afghanistan. Rohit Sinha wrote: The woman I am talking about was feeling very confident of herself, and was happy that she could finally establish her own identity. In your country, my country and all the other countries, before marriage a girl is is regognized by her father's name and after marriage is recognized by her husband's name. It is a basic principle of Islam that a woman should be recognized by her own name any not by her father's or husband's name. This principle today is not followed even in muslim countries. Only Talibans given them this identity, which unfortunately ended. And according to you they are "happy" with "new" identity. WOW Rohit Sinha wrote: Anyway, she was able to walk around without a "burqa" Burqa is a part of Afghan culture, which is there for ages and people are still following there culture. Few have thrown it away and they are those who belong to ruling northern alliance and are historically tilted towards Russian culture. Even those Afghans refugees who are living in various localities of modern cities in Pakistan for 15 yrs are follwing their own culture. Yes CNN or Times Magazine may show something else. Note: Please don't think that i am Taliban supporter
I'm sure they were happy being denied medical treatment too. And banned from leaving their home unless escorted my a male family member - lucky them ! And there has been footage of women in prison and noone knew why, but the only way out was if someone bribed the jailers :mad: Or I could mention these 'honour' murders that have started becoming more common, particularly in northern Pakistan :mad: Also, I saw a number of happy people filmed in Kabul. The tigress is here :-D
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Though it also has to be said that the US is not following up very well on it's promises of re-building Afghanistan. Apparently Bush did not even mention Afghanistan in his budget request. I wonder what will happen to Iraq. Just a comment :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Some links of interest. I haven't read much of these, but it looks the info on what's going on is in here somewhere. (boy, that's helpful isn't ? :~ ) http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/sasia/afghan/text2003/0110rebld.htm[^] http://www.export.gov/afghanistan/[^] http://www.futureharvest.org/news/afghanistan_fh3.shtml[^] http://www.afghanistandaily.com/[^] BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
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Unfortunatly the country was already pretty flattened :( Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Oh, did anyone help re-build it?