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  4. Will US ever learn?

Will US ever learn?

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  • B brianwelsch

    So we buy an Ally, and its our fault they turn into a group of deranged, fanatical freaks?? They couldn't by chance be responsible for their own path just a little could they? And your assuming the Kurds will be likewise irrational clowns, based on...?? BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security

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    Lost User
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    History. Turkey is a NATO member, which wants to repress Kurds. After the war, US will find it convenient to support Turkey over Kurds. Kurds will become dis-illusioned similar to the Mujahideen ... and you can expect the same kind of feeling of being used among them. Whether they will form another Al-Qaeda is left to debate. But, I foresee one, if Turkey is not reined in, and this issue is not addressed NOW. Ofcouse, we have to wait and see what happens. But, if the Kurds are left to the mercy of Turks, then US will have another serious problem in the coming years. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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    • L Lost User

      US people also forget something. US did not join WWII until Pearl Harbour. Ofcourse, if they stuck to just defending the American continent, Hitler and Japan would have become too powerful. It is obvious that the Americans had selfish reasons to fight in Europe - avoid a war in mainland America. If they waited too long, there would have been no place in Europe to stage their attacks from. If you look at the WWII time line, United States proclaims neutrality in 1939 and held on to that position until 1941, when Churchill convinced FDR into the Atlantic Charter and the oil embargo and freezing of Axis assets in the US, which further led to Peral Harbour and to US entering the war. A French diplomat made a statement just before the Iraq war. "You waited two years before joining the war when Hitler was invading Europe. You can't accept us wanting to wait 4 more weeks to attack Saddam". Imagine, if Germany and Japan held back their attacks against Russia and United States, and took on one country at a time, Britain, and then Russia and then United States, he had a really good chance. The world is lucky that the madmen usually have over-confidence to take on everyone else at the same time. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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      Christian Graus
      wrote on last edited by
      #14

      You have to also consider that knowing how many lives were lost because the US held back in WWII is one reason they are so quick to try and run the entire world nowadays. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic

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      • C Christian Graus

        You have to also consider that knowing how many lives were lost because the US held back in WWII is one reason they are so quick to try and run the entire world nowadays. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic

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        Lost User
        wrote on last edited by
        #15

        Yeah. I don't know how much it is helping though. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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        • C Christian Graus

          You have to also consider that knowing how many lives were lost because the US held back in WWII is one reason they are so quick to try and run the entire world nowadays. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic

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          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #16

          Would Soviet Russia have fallen faster, if all the NATO alliance countries opened all borders and encouraged free flow of people into the West OR would it still have taken 50 years? My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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          • D David Wulff

            Christian Graus wrote: Stalin had the ultimate weapon - snow. Was it yellow? :~


            David Wulff

            "Somebody get this freakin' duck away from me!" - Strong Bad [^]

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            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #17

            No, Red (communist snow):-D My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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            • B Bedri Egrilmez

              SCENE 1 (1) In order to help it bring down the evil regime of the USSR, US pours weapons/money to the Afghan mujaheddin (which means "the holy warrior"). Suddenly, the mujaheddin become the best friend of the US. (2) After the USSR is toppled, the mujaheddin fall into disarray, they morph into the Taliban, which becomes the breeding ground for Al-Queda. SCENE 2 (1) In order to help it bring down the evil regime of Iraq, US pours weapons/money to the Kurdish peshmerga (which means "the one who looks death in the face"). Suddenly, the peshmerga become the best friend of the US. (2) After Iraqi regime is toppled, the peshmerga fall into disarray, they morph into the (you name it), which becomes the breeding ground for (you name it).

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              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #18

              That is my biggest worry. The good sign is that it looks as if Turkey has been presuaded to stay out of northern Iraq (at least, no more than are there already). Maybe Iraq should be split up, I don't know enough to say. :( The tigress is here :-D

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              • L Lost User

                That is my biggest worry. The good sign is that it looks as if Turkey has been presuaded to stay out of northern Iraq (at least, no more than are there already). Maybe Iraq should be split up, I don't know enough to say. :( The tigress is here :-D

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                Lost User
                wrote on last edited by
                #19

                Trollslayer wrote: Maybe Iraq should be split up, I don't know enough to say Noooooooooooooo. We already have India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine - partitions that never did what they were supposed to. Let them decide what to do. Don't make decisions for them. It will come back and bite you in the ass. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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                • L Lost User

                  Trollslayer wrote: Maybe Iraq should be split up, I don't know enough to say Noooooooooooooo. We already have India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine - partitions that never did what they were supposed to. Let them decide what to do. Don't make decisions for them. It will come back and bite you in the ass. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #20

                  1. The India/Pakistan partition wasn't the perfect solution by any means, but a lot better than doing nothing. 2. Israel/Palestine wasn't a partition, it was an occupation. 3. I'm not saying partitioning should be imposed, it should be agreed. The tigress is here :-D

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                  • B brianwelsch

                    So we buy an Ally, and its our fault they turn into a group of deranged, fanatical freaks?? They couldn't by chance be responsible for their own path just a little could they? And your assuming the Kurds will be likewise irrational clowns, based on...?? BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security

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                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #21

                    The Kurds must be doing well, we don't hear about them in the news unless it involves SH ..... Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D

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                    • C Christian Graus

                      Good analogy, except that it's wrong. No Russian and US troops ever fought side by side, and I seem to recall the US never gave Stalin any material aid either, because of misgivings about him. My recollection is that the allies were simply folks fighting the same guy seperately on two seperate fronts. Besides, Stalin had the ultimate weapon - snow. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic

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                      Michael A Barnhart
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #22

                      Christian Graus wrote: and I seem to recall the US never gave Stalin any material aid either, because of misgivings about him. Well if you insist on technicalities the US may not have given anything to Stalin. How ever since they have never repaid the US like the UK (is almost done doing) I consider the 11 billion in 1945 dollars a pretty big gift. Lend Lease to Russia[^] and Joseph Stalin never revealed to his own people the full contributions of Lend-Lease to their country's survival, but he referred to the program at the 1945 Yalta Conference saying, "Lend-Lease is one of Franklin Roosevelt's most remarkable and vital achievements in the formation of the anti-Hitler alliance." [^] ""

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                      • B brianwelsch

                        So we buy an Ally, and its our fault they turn into a group of deranged, fanatical freaks?? They couldn't by chance be responsible for their own path just a little could they? And your assuming the Kurds will be likewise irrational clowns, based on...?? BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security

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                        peterchen
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #23

                        Um... maybe, just maybe, you bought deranged, fanatical freaks in the very beginning? Wasn't there once a saying about Saddam by an US representative "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard!"? Sure they are responsible for what they do. But changing "allies" like underwear should be changed, nurturing and protecting a known asshole as long as he assholes around for you, is, according to my education, the peak of medieval diplomacy. There are quite some known irrational clowns among the Kurds. Which is a pity, as they're, as a people, in a total mess, and the clowns should not be taken for the whole bunch, but some of them will now be promoted. I Hate to say that, but do U.S. foreign affair ministers all suffer from bad breath? There must be a reason their former allies tend to turn against them. (Hint: Freshminst are cheaper than Cruise Missiles!)


                        Italian is a beautiful language. amare means to love, and amara bitter.
                        sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

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                        • L Lost User

                          1. The India/Pakistan partition wasn't the perfect solution by any means, but a lot better than doing nothing. 2. Israel/Palestine wasn't a partition, it was an occupation. 3. I'm not saying partitioning should be imposed, it should be agreed. The tigress is here :-D

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                          Lost User
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #24

                          When Britain says that we will create two countries, and every small petty kingdom that was there when Britain came in have the right to join either India or Pakistan; and we will not be here to oversee the chaos, it is pretty much the worst it can go. Partition should not even be talked about by the West. They have a very bad track record in this thing. Let Iraqis divide it, if they want to. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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                          • B Brit

                            The Kurdish peshmerga are likely to become a breeding ground for (something evil)? While I don't really agree with backing anyone too zealous for any ideology, I haven't seen that in the Kurdish peshmerga (maybe I'm looking in the wrong place). Your comparison seems to imply a pattern, but I wonder how valid it is. Afterall, we probably supported lots of anti-Nazi groups in World War II, but that doesn't mean it has come back to bite anyone. (Unless, of course, you want to point fingers at France. But, I don't really think that's a valid comparison.) ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion

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                            Bedri Egrilmez
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #25

                            Enmity between Talabani and Barzani (Did you know that Talabani aligned with SH against Barzani's father Mullah Mustafa in the 80s.). Theirs is a temporary alliance. Afganistan had the same situation after Russian withdrawal. with their own private armies, Talabani and Barzani's parties resemble more medieval clans than the parties that you are accustomed to. Unlike what you are told, neither Shiites nor Kurds are in a hurry to break away from the SH regime. If one those countries will really be established, they will be devoid of their public's support. Ignorance of the fact that millions of Turkomans and Arabs also live in the area. Oh, and let us not forget Norhern Iraq is also home to Islamic El-Ansar militants and thousands of PKK guerillas. ...leads me to think that a future Kurdistan will not remotely resemble France. US/UK's master plan on the region seems to be replacing a Middle-East dictatorship with smaller, more violent ones.

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