So how the heck do you explain this?
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I'm at the same stage - I try to explain things in terms of "boxes". Box "a" contains two items, box "b" contains three items, how many items have I got if I add what's in box "a" to what's in box "b"? Pointers and memory addresses are a future topic :laugh:
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
How many items? 2, box A and box B! Obviously! You really need a box C. If I tip the contents of box A and box B into box C how many items are in box C? The reason that algebra is so hard is because it is a double abstraction where most people see only a single. You have already made a huge leap in separating number from the count of actual objects. Now you're making a second in suggesting that you can work with numbers without actually knowing what they are! If you haven't got the concept of the first abstraction firmly fixed in your head then you stand no chance of making the second meaningful!
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How many items? 2, box A and box B! Obviously! You really need a box C. If I tip the contents of box A and box B into box C how many items are in box C? The reason that algebra is so hard is because it is a double abstraction where most people see only a single. You have already made a huge leap in separating number from the count of actual objects. Now you're making a second in suggesting that you can work with numbers without actually knowing what they are! If you haven't got the concept of the first abstraction firmly fixed in your head then you stand no chance of making the second meaningful!
Well my 6 year old seems to have grasped the concept using the "box" technique. I forgot I'm talking to programmers here, a much tougher audience :laugh:
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
rnbergren wrote:
Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
When I was first exposed to programming, I had the hardest time understanding how a computer new "what a is." One day, I just got it. Here's what you do. Take two bowls, and label them "A" and "B" (actually label them, don't just say, let's call this bowl "A" and this bowl "B"!) Put 2 lemons (or apples, or whatever) in bowl A. Put 3 in bowl B. Ask your son how many lemons/apples/whatever are in both A and B. Then ask your son what A+B is. Label a third empty bowl C. Ask your son to physically express "C = A + B" by moving the fruit from bowls A and B into C. I'm sure he'll get it. Explaining all about memory address stuff is way to abstract without tangible, physical memnonics (or whatever the word is.) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Who's on first!
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
What's on second!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I'm at the same stage - I try to explain things in terms of "boxes". Box "a" contains two items, box "b" contains three items, how many items have I got if I add what's in box "a" to what's in box "b"? Pointers and memory addresses are a future topic :laugh:
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
It works well - but with young kids you can make it easier if you use bags of sweets. "I've got 2 sweets in this bag, and 3 sweets in this bag - how many sweets have I got?" It kinda focusses them on the content rather than the bag. Greedy little swine that they are... :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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It works well - but with young kids you can make it easier if you use bags of sweets. "I've got 2 sweets in this bag, and 3 sweets in this bag - how many sweets have I got?" It kinda focusses them on the content rather than the bag. Greedy little swine that they are... :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
Does he know algebra? What exactly would you like to explain? Variables are an abstraction for a model that we use in math, programming and other things. Talking about A and B allow us to think in general (abstract) terms. I think that was astute for him to ask why not just add 2+3 together if he doesn't understand the need for the abstraction. I agree with Mark's line of explanation, use something tangible. To tie the entire argument together, where does the answer get stored? If the equation is A+B=C, have a third bowl labeled C, place the bowls A and B inside of C. How many oranges are in C. A is still equal to 2 B is still equal to 3 C is now equal to 5 And no laws of physics had to be broken to magically produce 5 new oranges just to assign the answer to C.
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What's on second!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
I dont know - Third base
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
rnbergren wrote:
Ideas?
Management track?
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
Perhaps a DNA test ?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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rnbergren wrote:
Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
When I was first exposed to programming, I had the hardest time understanding how a computer new "what a is." One day, I just got it. Here's what you do. Take two bowls, and label them "A" and "B" (actually label them, don't just say, let's call this bowl "A" and this bowl "B"!) Put 2 lemons (or apples, or whatever) in bowl A. Put 3 in bowl B. Ask your son how many lemons/apples/whatever are in both A and B. Then ask your son what A+B is. Label a third empty bowl C. Ask your son to physically express "C = A + B" by moving the fruit from bowls A and B into C. I'm sure he'll get it. Explaining all about memory address stuff is way to abstract without tangible, physical memnonics (or whatever the word is.) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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It works well - but with young kids you can make it easier if you use bags of sweets. "I've got 2 sweets in this bag, and 3 sweets in this bag - how many sweets have I got?" It kinda focusses them on the content rather than the bag. Greedy little swine that they are... :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Sweets easier. How long was it since you handled kids? The answer is four sweets, uhm I mean three sweets...
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Sweets easier. How long was it since you handled kids? The answer is four sweets, uhm I mean three sweets...
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Hey - I'm holding the bags, and I'm taller than they are! (And I can eat sweeties faster it I want to...)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Yes, and if you use a mix of apples, lemons, oranges, etc. you can refer to it all as "fruit" and then go on to talk about class inheritance and so on... Brilliant!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Forogar wrote:
es, and if you use a mix of apples, lemons, oranges, etc. you can refer to it all as "fruit" and then go on to talk about class inheritance and so on... Brilliant!
Hah! That is brilliant! I hadn't thought of that. :) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
It might be time to try the Father Ted "small cow and far away cow" test. It always gets me and if he passes it he's probably fine.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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as a father of three I don't disagree with this statement. But having good discussions with your children is a better teaching environment than they can ever get in school. My kids learn far more at home from Mom and I than they do at school. You as the parent are the best and most important instructor your child shall ever have. Fun discussions with my children are the best part of raising them. Watching them grow and learn is amazing.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
rnbergren wrote:
You as the parent are the best and most important instructor your child shall ever have.
So then why are you sending them to (public) school? :confused:
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
Perhaps you should put off this sort of discussion until after his third birthday. ;)
Will Rogers never met me.
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My son and I often have interesting discussions. Last night was no exception. So I being the geek I am often try to steer the discussion to programming and logic problems. Yesterday we were discussing variable assignments. Something I have notice with other "normal" people. My son is fairly normal even after my influence. (Must be mom). So I as talking about let a=2 and let b=3 So if we add a to b we get what? responses from son ranged from "ab" or "c" I then went into the whole memory address thing where a is just a name for a pointer to a memory address area where the value of "a" is stored. Soon as I asked for the value of "a". His response. "The value of "a" is always "a" right?" *sigh* no "a" is just the name for the pointer to the memory the variable name we use for then storing that value we will use later. "Well why not just type in 2+3 if you are going to add 2 and 3 together?" Ideas? I didn't get anywhere.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
Looks like he could have a bright future in customer support.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
