Rethink strategy? Or try again?
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You can still be a leader and practice your leadership even if you're not in the "leadership position". I'm not in a leadership position, but people look to me for guidance because they know they can trust me. Seize the chances that are given to you and earn the trust back that you seem to have lost.
So true! I do plan on learning from others even though I don't have the title of "Lead". I can make their experiences (failure or success) my own by studying why they did what they did in the circumstances they were in. Thanks for the words of encouragement.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
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Great advice. All of it really.
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In any ways, as others have said, don't give up. If you give up you will be proving your supervisor right.
You're right, I am not going to allow this to hold me back, but to learn from this and grow. On a funny note I once heard that the best revenge is massive success. But that's not my motivation to succeed. Just want to be a better version of myself and I see leadership as a way to fulfill that goal.
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I think you're in none of these positions just by how you put your situation.
Thanks for that.
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This psychological blow will fade if don't grow too attached to it. Turn it around and use it as motivation. I hope my words sink into you and you get what you dream for. Never give up on your dreams
You're right and I don't plan on letting this blow get to me, but to learn from this. Everyone here is right that if I don't have a knack for this then I should do what's best and let someone else step up to the plate. However, I do believe I have some potential for this. As one motiviation speaker has said that there are 3 types of people in this world; winners, losers, and those who have not yet discovered how to win. I am the 3rd type. I just need to grow and learn before I try again. I like the thing that you said about being humble and making my leader look good. That will work to my benefit as well because I will be learning from their success and failures in the process. Another learning experience which I can make my own. I will not let this get to me, but will make more of an effort to grow. Thanks for the words of encouragement.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
I'm really happy you found value on what I said. All the best!
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I am sorry to hear about your experience. However, you should be consoled to know that this experience is very common. As one who has been in the field for over 41 years I have led a number of small and medium sized teams technically. I have also taught technology classes in corporate environments. I am also very well experienced in the politics of business, especially in IT. First and foremost, there is no such thing as "leadership" in the corporate environment; there is management and the two are very different animals. Leadership cannot be learned or taught as it is something that is inherent to the person; you are someone people want to follow or you are not. It is a matter of personality. Leadership" is something where your people will stand by you no matter what. That will never happen in business unless you are extremely lucky with a very rare group of people. When your supposed mentor turned on you and told you to get things done, this was a reflection of what he expected of you as a "manager" not a leader. This attitude is rife in the IT profession at all levels where the term "leadership" is just a term for ego-centric managers to toss about. You want to be a leader in IT than go out and be one! Build your own company where the people you hire want to work there and work with you. Treat them as equals and fairly but keeping in mind that you are the head of the organization and it is an organization that you created not only to produce a product of quality of excellence but one in which changes the sociological dynamic where people working there can enjoy it secure in the knowledge that the organization is there to take care of them as much as they are expected to take care of it. That is leadership! The rest is just business as usual...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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However, you should be consoled to know that this experience is very common.
Wow, I didn't know that.
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When your supposed mentor turned on you and told you to get things done, this was a reflection of what he expected of you as a "manager" not a leader. This attitude is rife in the IT profession at all levels where the term "leadership" is just a term for ego-centric managers to toss about.
I think your right about that. As you mentioned my view of leadership is people wanting to follow you. Maybe it's personality I don't know, but I have to take your word on it.
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You want to be a leader in IT than go out and be one! Build your own company...
That's the reason why I am seeking leadership roles is I already started my own company. Well, I have purchased my own LLC 2 years back, but I want to transition from consultant to owner if you get my meaning. My goal is not seeking the title of "CEO" or something to that affect, but rather to create a community to make a product in a positive environment. I know this is possible because my previous employment did this quite well to have high morale within the company. For me this is just wishful thinking at the moment and the proof is in the pudding as the expression goes. I want to learn "leadership" from professionals so I can take what works and apply them to my business. I really do take this seriously, because this means that much to me. I will do my best to learn the differences between managing and leadership as you have stated. Thanks for the words of encouragement.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
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Thanks for the wise words. Yes, I do feel for quite some time that I have been setup to fail. Criticism came too quickly, but constructive criticism was extremely rare. As for leaving I am currently looking for another opportunity. The working environment was not a right fit for me. I know that wishful thinking can only take you so far, but I have to start somewhere in order to learn and this was a great learning experience of what not to do. My goal has not changed, but I do need to learn from someone who is willing to teach and give me the advice that is unbiased. To give me the advice that is best for me in order to learn. Thanks for your feedback it is greatly appreciated.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
I have experienced the same thing recently. The one question to ask yourself is, how realistic were the demands of management? It's one thing to get yourself mired in the swamp of getting people motivated and moving in the right direction. Been there. Keep learning, you'll get there. It is quite another when the management team is berating you because your team can't run the 100 meter sprint in four seconds. If this is the case, run. Run fast and run far. Trust me, there are better pitches to play on.
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Karel Čapek wrote:
Just because you want to be a leader, does not make you one. You need to have years of experience dealing with people and projects under your belt before you can manage and direct them.
This is very true. I was a communications officer in the US Air Force for 11 years. I was in a position where I had worked for some high-ranking officers and could have done very well (ie climbed the ranks) with them looking out for me. However, at the 11 year point I was about to be promoted to Major, which would have brought a lot of management, staff officer, squadron commander, and other leadership requirements with it. But deep-down I am a software guy and I enjoy being a software engineer. So I separated from the AF and have been a software engineering consultant to the same AF organization I was a flight commander in before separating. One aspect of being a good leader is realizing when you're not the right person to actually be leading...
PSU Steve wrote:
One aspect of being a good leader is realizing when you're not the right person to actually be leading...
:thumbsup:
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Hello everyone, Very recently (last week) I was demoted from my leadership position within the website team. This has come as a blow for me. Being in a leadership position is something that I have worked very hard to get, but maintaining that has been equally challenging. This has been my first position in a leadership role, so I know I have must have made many rookie mistakes. Some mistakes I know I will not make again and others I don't know what I should have done differently. My biggest upset comes from my supervisor who I thought I could trust to help me "learn" how to lead a team. But communication between us has been falling apart for about two months. He wants me to "get it done" whatever that means in particular situations and seems no longer interested in mentoring me. I guess the mentoring part hurts the most because as I mentioned before being a leader is what I have wanted for a long time. I used to be a bit of a shy guy and this goal I set for myself really has helped me to trust in my vision and trust in my voice. Having someone to mentor me really meant something to me to work together to not only make a successful product, but helping me to learn how to rally workers together to accomplish the day to day tasks. Lately (the whole weekend), I have been asking myself whether I should put away this dream or to learn from this and grow (how do I grow? I have no clue. Still need some one to mentor me). If I choose to continue down this path I really do need someone to turn to for advice. Further, I highly doubt within this company I will be allowed another opportunity like the one I have received. If I choose to let this go then I need a new goal to strive for and at the moment I am clueless to what that goal might be. So I ask all of you have you been in a position within your career you were denied something you have desired? If so, how did you overcome them? Or how did you reevaluate your goals to see if it was "right" for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The pain of this situation still feels raw to me because that's how important this leadership position meant to me. Thanks.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
I always spend time in reflection when I am demoted or let go. (Yeah, it happens over a long career). It is feedback on my performance that cannot be denied. I look for root causes. Guess it's the geek in me. You're doing well to take a little time out to think. There are senior managers who manage by wishing. They put a line manager in charge of a team and expect that team to perform. If they expect performance to a fixed deadline and don't want to hear about scope-creep, discovered work, etc., they are managing by wish. If the line manager is not in a position to grant their wishes, they replace them, because you have to kiss a whole lot of frogs if you expect one to magically turn into a prince. In my darker days, I refer to this as the "Darth Vader School of Management" after the way Mr Vader promotes his admirals, by crushing the windpipe of the former admiral and casting his lifeless body aside, then pointing a gauntleted hand at another and saying "Congratulations on your promotion...Admiral". We learn more by failure than by success. You can probably think of things you should have done differently. Do these things next time. One additional question to ask yourself is, were you happy in your leadership role? If you were, then it's worth trying to get another lead role. If not, then why are you wasting your time? You escaaped. Celebrate.
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Hello everyone, Very recently (last week) I was demoted from my leadership position within the website team. This has come as a blow for me. Being in a leadership position is something that I have worked very hard to get, but maintaining that has been equally challenging. This has been my first position in a leadership role, so I know I have must have made many rookie mistakes. Some mistakes I know I will not make again and others I don't know what I should have done differently. My biggest upset comes from my supervisor who I thought I could trust to help me "learn" how to lead a team. But communication between us has been falling apart for about two months. He wants me to "get it done" whatever that means in particular situations and seems no longer interested in mentoring me. I guess the mentoring part hurts the most because as I mentioned before being a leader is what I have wanted for a long time. I used to be a bit of a shy guy and this goal I set for myself really has helped me to trust in my vision and trust in my voice. Having someone to mentor me really meant something to me to work together to not only make a successful product, but helping me to learn how to rally workers together to accomplish the day to day tasks. Lately (the whole weekend), I have been asking myself whether I should put away this dream or to learn from this and grow (how do I grow? I have no clue. Still need some one to mentor me). If I choose to continue down this path I really do need someone to turn to for advice. Further, I highly doubt within this company I will be allowed another opportunity like the one I have received. If I choose to let this go then I need a new goal to strive for and at the moment I am clueless to what that goal might be. So I ask all of you have you been in a position within your career you were denied something you have desired? If so, how did you overcome them? Or how did you reevaluate your goals to see if it was "right" for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The pain of this situation still feels raw to me because that's how important this leadership position meant to me. Thanks.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
Hello Clark Kent123, Im sorry to hear about that... Any way you should be happy for what you have acomplished. Every fall is an opportunity to learn and an opportunity for personal grow, if you learn from your mistakes, you will be a better person for your next job!
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Hello everyone, Very recently (last week) I was demoted from my leadership position within the website team. This has come as a blow for me. Being in a leadership position is something that I have worked very hard to get, but maintaining that has been equally challenging. This has been my first position in a leadership role, so I know I have must have made many rookie mistakes. Some mistakes I know I will not make again and others I don't know what I should have done differently. My biggest upset comes from my supervisor who I thought I could trust to help me "learn" how to lead a team. But communication between us has been falling apart for about two months. He wants me to "get it done" whatever that means in particular situations and seems no longer interested in mentoring me. I guess the mentoring part hurts the most because as I mentioned before being a leader is what I have wanted for a long time. I used to be a bit of a shy guy and this goal I set for myself really has helped me to trust in my vision and trust in my voice. Having someone to mentor me really meant something to me to work together to not only make a successful product, but helping me to learn how to rally workers together to accomplish the day to day tasks. Lately (the whole weekend), I have been asking myself whether I should put away this dream or to learn from this and grow (how do I grow? I have no clue. Still need some one to mentor me). If I choose to continue down this path I really do need someone to turn to for advice. Further, I highly doubt within this company I will be allowed another opportunity like the one I have received. If I choose to let this go then I need a new goal to strive for and at the moment I am clueless to what that goal might be. So I ask all of you have you been in a position within your career you were denied something you have desired? If so, how did you overcome them? Or how did you reevaluate your goals to see if it was "right" for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The pain of this situation still feels raw to me because that's how important this leadership position meant to me. Thanks.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
Leadership requires that you learn from your successes and failures. Failures definitely hurt, but know that everyone fails. Here are some resources that I hope you will find useful: A great blog article on different levels of maturity in software development: http://mattbriggs.net/blog/2015/06/01/the-role-of-a-senior-developer/ A great book on technical team dynamics: http://www.amazon.com/Team-Geek-Software-Developers-Working/dp/1449302440 Your leaders are looking to you to as a force-multiplier. They need leaders who can get stuff done for them. If you are taking up more of their time than it takes them to accomplish the work themselves then you are a liability rather than an asset. If you need more mentoring time than your boss can afford, seek out other sources such as meetups and user groups. Try to look through your boss's eyes and make his life easier rather than more difficult. Cheers.
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Hello everyone, Very recently (last week) I was demoted from my leadership position within the website team. This has come as a blow for me. Being in a leadership position is something that I have worked very hard to get, but maintaining that has been equally challenging. This has been my first position in a leadership role, so I know I have must have made many rookie mistakes. Some mistakes I know I will not make again and others I don't know what I should have done differently. My biggest upset comes from my supervisor who I thought I could trust to help me "learn" how to lead a team. But communication between us has been falling apart for about two months. He wants me to "get it done" whatever that means in particular situations and seems no longer interested in mentoring me. I guess the mentoring part hurts the most because as I mentioned before being a leader is what I have wanted for a long time. I used to be a bit of a shy guy and this goal I set for myself really has helped me to trust in my vision and trust in my voice. Having someone to mentor me really meant something to me to work together to not only make a successful product, but helping me to learn how to rally workers together to accomplish the day to day tasks. Lately (the whole weekend), I have been asking myself whether I should put away this dream or to learn from this and grow (how do I grow? I have no clue. Still need some one to mentor me). If I choose to continue down this path I really do need someone to turn to for advice. Further, I highly doubt within this company I will be allowed another opportunity like the one I have received. If I choose to let this go then I need a new goal to strive for and at the moment I am clueless to what that goal might be. So I ask all of you have you been in a position within your career you were denied something you have desired? If so, how did you overcome them? Or how did you reevaluate your goals to see if it was "right" for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The pain of this situation still feels raw to me because that's how important this leadership position meant to me. Thanks.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
Well, it's hard to read, but there's a post from Michael O. Church, in which he explains why it's not good to think about that mentor you mentioned, there are some inconvenient truths in it, but it changed my vision completely, so I think it'll be worth for you to read it. The post is here [^]
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I always spend time in reflection when I am demoted or let go. (Yeah, it happens over a long career). It is feedback on my performance that cannot be denied. I look for root causes. Guess it's the geek in me. You're doing well to take a little time out to think. There are senior managers who manage by wishing. They put a line manager in charge of a team and expect that team to perform. If they expect performance to a fixed deadline and don't want to hear about scope-creep, discovered work, etc., they are managing by wish. If the line manager is not in a position to grant their wishes, they replace them, because you have to kiss a whole lot of frogs if you expect one to magically turn into a prince. In my darker days, I refer to this as the "Darth Vader School of Management" after the way Mr Vader promotes his admirals, by crushing the windpipe of the former admiral and casting his lifeless body aside, then pointing a gauntleted hand at another and saying "Congratulations on your promotion...Admiral". We learn more by failure than by success. You can probably think of things you should have done differently. Do these things next time. One additional question to ask yourself is, were you happy in your leadership role? If you were, then it's worth trying to get another lead role. If not, then why are you wasting your time? You escaaped. Celebrate.
Great way to look at it. Yes, I did escape and in a sense I am celebrating. Glad it's not just me who uses his geekyness to analyze the outcome and to do things differently. Albert Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting something different to happen. There are a few things that I would like to do differently next time if I have the opportunity. I appreciate your outlook and I must say your Darth Vader analogy sometimes feels true. Leading by fear is not something I aspire to be. Not sure if you have seen IMDB: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes[^] movie. Just in case you have not one thing I most enjoyed about the movie was the leadership role of Caesar (Andy Serkis) in comparision to Dreyfus (Gary Oldman). I guess that's what I would consider an ideal leader to be, but it's just a movie.
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We learn more by failure than by success.
You're abosutely right pleasure and pain are great motivators. Thanks for giving me more food for thought. Appreciate the words of encouragement and your perspective.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur
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Hello Clark Kent123, Im sorry to hear about that... Any way you should be happy for what you have acomplished. Every fall is an opportunity to learn and an opportunity for personal grow, if you learn from your mistakes, you will be a better person for your next job!
Thanks for the words of encouragement. Albert Enstein once said that a person who has never failed has never tried. Yes, I did try and I learned so much from this experience. Well, here is to the future of more tries and hopefully less failures. :) Thanks!
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul." -Douglas MacArthur