is Language important for s/w development ?
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
ravikhoda wrote:
is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages?
Depends on the language; if you are talking about English, then I'd say it would be a valid ground to reject someone. "Talent" is no alternative to being able to read MSDN or CodeProject. International projects are usually in English, and most logical errors are due to miscommunications. Most books and documentation is in English. And if someone can learn decent C#, I do not see why they could not learn a bit of English - unless they are simply not interested in learning a language. Well, that is simply a choice on the devs' side, just as "not hiring" could be one.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
It all depends upon the Role I guess, For example Architect/Project Manager Role require significant communication across the board, so weightage will definitely be high for these roles. For a role that only require to follow FS and adding kilos of code daily in a repository soft skills can be ignored if the development skills are above norm. But a better communicator will always have a upper hand over one that can't do well in soft skills term
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It all depends upon the Role I guess, For example Architect/Project Manager Role require significant communication across the board, so weightage will definitely be high for these roles. For a role that only require to follow FS and adding kilos of code daily in a repository soft skills can be ignored if the development skills are above norm. But a better communicator will always have a upper hand over one that can't do well in soft skills term
_Asif_ wrote:
For a role that only require to follow FS and adding kilos of code daily in a repository soft skills can be ignored
You mean that one does not need to be able to read the requirements, if they are in English? :) I DO hope that the specs are in English :D
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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This[^] is an article in HBR, where the author is quite picky about correct English grammar. IMHO, this is somewhat unwarranted. With English not necessarily taught with same rigour/exactness all around, I feel it is OK to relax this grammatical picky-ness, and look for brevity, succinctness and clarity of articulation instead. I know you'll find grammatical mistakes in my above message :-)
Avijnata wrote:
this is somewhat unwarranted
On the contrary, for a company that makes its money from producing written documentation, it's important to get both grammar and spelling correct. It's not too much to expect people to produce documentation that means what it says. On the contrary, for a company that makes its money from producing written documentation, its important two get both grammer and spelling correct. Its not to much too expect people two produce documentation that means what it says.
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
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That's easy for you to say! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Me, all the time -
Avijnata wrote:
this is somewhat unwarranted
On the contrary, for a company that makes its money from producing written documentation, it's important to get both grammar and spelling correct. It's not too much to expect people to produce documentation that means what it says. On the contrary, for a company that makes its money from producing written documentation, its important two get both grammer and spelling correct. Its not to much too expect people two produce documentation that means what it says.
Agree. Technical documentation, perhaps needs Master's degree holders in the English language, and grammatical errors are unpardonable. However, there are many other jobs, and that is the reason for my usage "somewhat unwarranted", and not "unwarranted". Small example. In India, the grammatically incorrect usage: "We can able to do this ..." is quite common; what is meant is "We are able to do this ...". Rejecting employment for such reasons is somewhat unwarranted.
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
A nyelvtudás semmi módon nem segíti elő a megrendelő megértését But it can help to understand colleagues ומאפשר ללמוד ולקבל עזרה ממקורות מרובוים יותר
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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_Asif_ wrote:
For a role that only require to follow FS and adding kilos of code daily in a repository soft skills can be ignored
You mean that one does not need to be able to read the requirements, if they are in English? :) I DO hope that the specs are in English :D
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Usually Developer's reading skills gets improved significantly (because continuously reading the requirements, finding code snippet/article over google/codeproject) ;) Problem usually lies in speaking. A part from that reading is just one skill to name in Soft Skills :)
Do Read(); Research(); Experiment(); UnTil You Inspire!
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
I would first test a candidate's writing skills in the local language. In my experience, a person who cannot organize his/her thoughts well enough to write them down in their own language is incapable of doing so in a computer language. As most technical documentation is available only in English, I think that a working knowledge of Technical English is very important. In an international project, speaking and writing Business and/or Technical English are also essential. Having said that, I would not disqualify a candidate because he speaks the local dialect of English rather than the Queen's English or American. However, if the position requires writing documentation for international clients - either the Queen's English or American is required. A candidate that cannot write either of these would be disqualified.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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Usually Developer's reading skills gets improved significantly (because continuously reading the requirements, finding code snippet/article over google/codeproject) ;) Problem usually lies in speaking. A part from that reading is just one skill to name in Soft Skills :)
Do Read(); Research(); Experiment(); UnTil You Inspire!
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This[^] is an article in HBR, where the author is quite picky about correct English grammar. IMHO, this is somewhat unwarranted. With English not necessarily taught with same rigour/exactness all around, I feel it is OK to relax this grammatical picky-ness, and look for brevity, succinctness and clarity of articulation instead. I know you'll find grammatical mistakes in my above message :-)
For someone who is such a stickler for attention he didn't pay much attention to his url, did he? :omg: :-\ :laugh: :laugh:
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
I sometimes get the impression that prospective developers seem to think "how to" is the only English they need *sigh*
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For someone who is such a stickler for attention he didn't pay much attention to his url, did he? :omg: :-\ :laugh: :laugh:
:thumbsup: That was what I too noticed :-)
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Depends on the company, depends on the country. In the UK, it's uncommon for employees to speak anything other than English (Welsh and other regional languages like Geordie and Yorkshire excepted) so it's not a requirement. In other countries like Switzerland, multilingualism is the norm, and a good command of English, German (or more likely Switzerdeutsch), and probably French is pretty much expected. If a role requires talking to people in a language - perhaps a close working relationship with a Japanese or Chinese company - then a good command of that language would only be a benefit. But for most software developers, the regional language is sufficient, though a good command of English can help a lot with the documentation! :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
OriginalGriff wrote:
In other countries like Switzerland, multilingualism is the norm, and a good command of English, German (or more likely Switzerdeutsch), and probably French is pretty much expected.
Don't expect any swiss guy to speak fluent english. Usually they have a strong Accent and a small amount of words known to them. We got different Areas with different native languages spoken (mainly German/Swiss German, French and Italian [not counting in the Balkan languages you hear, depending on the neighbourhood). Don't expect me to speak French. Don't expect me to speak Italian. I speak german or english.
"A property doesn't have to be a Property to be a property." - PIEBALDConsult
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OriginalGriff wrote:
In other countries like Switzerland, multilingualism is the norm, and a good command of English, German (or more likely Switzerdeutsch), and probably French is pretty much expected.
Don't expect any swiss guy to speak fluent english. Usually they have a strong Accent and a small amount of words known to them. We got different Areas with different native languages spoken (mainly German/Swiss German, French and Italian [not counting in the Balkan languages you hear, depending on the neighbourhood). Don't expect me to speak French. Don't expect me to speak Italian. I speak german or english.
"A property doesn't have to be a Property to be a property." - PIEBALDConsult
Most of the Swiss I've met have been in / around Geneva, so the presence of CERN may well have skewed my impression towards a higher percentage of English speakers. (No, I never worked there - but I had a girlfriend who did)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote:
In other countries like Switzerland, multilingualism is the norm, and a good command of English, German (or more likely Switzerdeutsch), and probably French is pretty much expected.
Don't expect any swiss guy to speak fluent english. Usually they have a strong Accent and a small amount of words known to them. We got different Areas with different native languages spoken (mainly German/Swiss German, French and Italian [not counting in the Balkan languages you hear, depending on the neighbourhood). Don't expect me to speak French. Don't expect me to speak Italian. I speak german or english.
"A property doesn't have to be a Property to be a property." - PIEBALDConsult
Most of the Swiss I've met have been in / around Geneva, so the presence of CERN may well have skewed my impression towards a higher percentage of English speakers. (No, I never worked there - but I had a girlfriend who did.)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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we as a software developer get more chance to work with global customers as compare to other industry, different native language may be a problem sometimes for better communication but is it okay to reject some talented person just because he/she is not good with other languages? he/she is strong in doing what he is assign to do but with less good communication skills. According to you how much weightage should be given to such soft skills in overall development of a candidate?
Ravi Khoda Humanity is the best religion and smile is the best medicine.
If the candidate isn't applying for a job that requires him to come up with strings that get displayed to an end user, then as long as he can communicate effectively with other team members, I wouldn't automatically disqualify an otherwise good coder. That said, if I may rant for a second, I'm French-Canadian, and I despise non-English versions of any operating system or software. It's all a big waste of resources IMO.
