Best place to be a programmer..?
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Urghh.. was hoping to avoid the meeja, espcially the likes of the Guardian, Torygraph, In(the EU)dependent, DM, etc. :laugh: One week a place can be the best place on earth, the next week the same place is awful. It's the extreme polarised views from the meeja and the interwebs that's led me to ask people here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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Forget Europe. The north, where there is some work, is as wet as the UK, the south is in the third world when it comes to IT. The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place. Good sun, good skiing, crap sea though, its glacial. Canada? If good weather is 6 months below zero then OK. NZ? Is there any IT work there? Sydney, Australia. Probably your best bet, that is if the Chinese slow down doesn't cripple their economy too much. But its got skiing, sun, countryside, a great city, good food. Singapore perhaps if you are in banking? However, if you can get work in or around Barcelona then its a great place. Europes hidden gem. Great coast, skiing on your door step. Like the Cote d'Azur in France, but a third the price. Talking of which, Sophia and Valbonne in the south of France is the one place there is an IT hot spot. The rest sucks. Low wages, utter crap.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
the south is in the third world when it comes to IT.
The truth, it hurts :((
Geek code v 3.12 { GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X } If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
the south is in the third world when it comes to IT.
The truth, it hurts :((
Geek code v 3.12 { GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X } If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
I live in the south of france, have done for a long time, and spend most of my time contracting in northern Europe.... and missing my family. But that's the fucking stupid shitty choice we made!
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I think for NZ, Auckland would be the sensible choice for a software developer :) I've heard that food and general goods in NZ can be expensive, but that the lifestyle is generally good? Would be interesting to hear from anyone out that way at the moment :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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Forget Europe. The north, where there is some work, is as wet as the UK, the south is in the third world when it comes to IT. The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place. Good sun, good skiing, crap sea though, its glacial. Canada? If good weather is 6 months below zero then OK. NZ? Is there any IT work there? Sydney, Australia. Probably your best bet, that is if the Chinese slow down doesn't cripple their economy too much. But its got skiing, sun, countryside, a great city, good food. Singapore perhaps if you are in banking? However, if you can get work in or around Barcelona then its a great place. Europes hidden gem. Great coast, skiing on your door step. Like the Cote d'Azur in France, but a third the price. Talking of which, Sophia and Valbonne in the south of France is the one place there is an IT hot spot. The rest sucks. Low wages, utter crap.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place.
I think for the US (and access to sea and hills/mountains) it'd probably have to be California. Not sure what area though? Canada - I'm guessing Totonto would be the natural choice, but don't know much about how things are there, or if it's easy to get out and do things. The cold isn't too much of an issue if winter sports are on the cards :) NZ - I've seen a few companies. IT/software are on their list of upcoming industries/skills in need and the outdoor opportunities are a big plus. Aus - seems popular, but is it getting too popular? At the moment I'm a contractor, current assignment is in finance but I'd prefer to be doing something else after this stint's up :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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We hear about the high food prices as well. But to us it's just normal life and it's not all about money but the lifestyle you can have, which more than compensates. :)
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I live in the south of france, have done for a long time, and spend most of my time contracting in northern Europe.... and missing my family. But that's the fucking stupid shitty choice we made!
I live in the north of Italy (in Piedmont, adjoining France, by the way) and luckily I work for Food & Beverage customers and we provide automated QA inspection machinery, so I do not properly work in the IT field despite being a programmer. There weren't many other choices anyway... mainly "startups", which seems it is the new term for "playground funded with Dad's remaining money that will ultimately crumble to dust for its debts".
Geek code v 3.12 { GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X } If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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Yep, I agree - as long as you're not going hungry or worrying about using electric :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
:-O work in electricity sector.. They've got too pay me so it goes to a good cause :laugh: Our winter bill ave about $180 month here and $70 month at the beach prop. Not too bad. All depends on you income. Conversion probably give false results compared to living here.
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:-O work in electricity sector.. They've got too pay me so it goes to a good cause :laugh: Our winter bill ave about $180 month here and $70 month at the beach prop. Not too bad. All depends on you income. Conversion probably give false results compared to living here.
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After yet another dismal British summer (link[^]), I've been thinking about whether to have a go at working abroad (which includes moving the family out with me :omg:). I'm considering the US, Canada and New Zealand (Australia would be too hot for my delicate British nature), but thought I'd ask people from those parts what it's really like to work in software and what the general lifestyles are like? Where are the best regions to find work and nice places to live? If there are any Brits that have moved already, how do things compare with the UK? It's difficult to get a realistic view from the internet (does that surprise anyone?) - it's either everywhere abroad is awful, or everywhere abroad is paradise - so I thought I'd ask here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
I've always quite fancied Germany, but so does everyone else on the planet right now it seems. Culturally and meteorologically pretty similar to Britain, good beer and its one of those countries that just kinda 'works'. Also because I like the idea of living somewhere where the language isn't my native tongue, to learn a new language. I think that's something us Brits do badly.
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I've always quite fancied Germany, but so does everyone else on the planet right now it seems. Culturally and meteorologically pretty similar to Britain, good beer and its one of those countries that just kinda 'works'. Also because I like the idea of living somewhere where the language isn't my native tongue, to learn a new language. I think that's something us Brits do badly.
I'm not really considering Europe - it's too bogged down in red tape and has become a "can't do" area (this is especially apparent in the UK). There are some major economic problems right across the Eurozone and I can't see things improving any time soon :( From a development point of view, countries like the US, Canada and Australia seem a lot more dynamic at the moment.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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After yet another dismal British summer (link[^]), I've been thinking about whether to have a go at working abroad (which includes moving the family out with me :omg:). I'm considering the US, Canada and New Zealand (Australia would be too hot for my delicate British nature), but thought I'd ask people from those parts what it's really like to work in software and what the general lifestyles are like? Where are the best regions to find work and nice places to live? If there are any Brits that have moved already, how do things compare with the UK? It's difficult to get a realistic view from the internet (does that surprise anyone?) - it's either everywhere abroad is awful, or everywhere abroad is paradise - so I thought I'd ask here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
Ummm, California has three societal sections - the illegals, the elite, and the people trying to survive the madness. They did elect moon bat Jerry Brown. Very high taxes (course you're coming from the UK), long commutes, very high housing prices. I'd move to NZ before California.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place.
I think for the US (and access to sea and hills/mountains) it'd probably have to be California. Not sure what area though? Canada - I'm guessing Totonto would be the natural choice, but don't know much about how things are there, or if it's easy to get out and do things. The cold isn't too much of an issue if winter sports are on the cards :) NZ - I've seen a few companies. IT/software are on their list of upcoming industries/skills in need and the outdoor opportunities are a big plus. Aus - seems popular, but is it getting too popular? At the moment I'm a contractor, current assignment is in finance but I'd prefer to be doing something else after this stint's up :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
California? I guess in certain places, the place is falling apart and has been for some time. Can't complain about the weather *if* you are close enough to the coast. Other than that, most of the state is semi-arid to arid. A lot of California moved to Arizona (lived in Tucson in the early 80s), and it's a crime what they did to a perfectly good desert state. The bumper sticker at the time was "Don't Californicate Arizona". The same thing happened to Colorado and is now happening to Texas, but there are a lot more Texans, so I have hope for the Lone Star State. I have clients in California, so most of the time I go there its on business. It's nice, if you can afford to live there. It sounds like you are more into a life style change rather than a career expanding move. That usually points you away from the hot spots of development (Silicon Valley, New York, Boston - all high cost of living or long commutes). Sounds like what you are looking for is a 4 season climate, relative short drives? Best of luck on your search.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place.
I think for the US (and access to sea and hills/mountains) it'd probably have to be California. Not sure what area though? Canada - I'm guessing Totonto would be the natural choice, but don't know much about how things are there, or if it's easy to get out and do things. The cold isn't too much of an issue if winter sports are on the cards :) NZ - I've seen a few companies. IT/software are on their list of upcoming industries/skills in need and the outdoor opportunities are a big plus. Aus - seems popular, but is it getting too popular? At the moment I'm a contractor, current assignment is in finance but I'd prefer to be doing something else after this stint's up :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
In California you want to be in the San Francisco area, or head inland to Sacramento, state capitol and nearer the skiing/hiking/canoeing (some good rivers up near there in gold rush country). For Canada, Toronto is a bit dull perhaps, and very flat. Very very flat. Vancouver might be better, or if you speak French with a mutant accent Quebec is probably great. NZ would be good if you can get IT work there. Its an amazing country, one of the most beautiful. Kind of like Japan, but English speaking. And has everything. Aus, yes, it is popular, for a reason. Its good! Finance is a useful role though, it will take you round the world, often for the same bank. HSBC internal postings for example, probably cover most of the known world.
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After yet another dismal British summer (link[^]), I've been thinking about whether to have a go at working abroad (which includes moving the family out with me :omg:). I'm considering the US, Canada and New Zealand (Australia would be too hot for my delicate British nature), but thought I'd ask people from those parts what it's really like to work in software and what the general lifestyles are like? Where are the best regions to find work and nice places to live? If there are any Brits that have moved already, how do things compare with the UK? It's difficult to get a realistic view from the internet (does that surprise anyone?) - it's either everywhere abroad is awful, or everywhere abroad is paradise - so I thought I'd ask here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
The bottom half of Australia isn't too hot - and if you can put up with a few mid-30's days in summer, the spring and autumn weather is awesome. We live on the Sunshine Coast, emigrated from Pommieland in '92 - kicked ourselves for not having done so sooner. The Boy(TM) was born here and I envy him greatly (although the schools here don't seem to have invented the shower - so after playing footie in the summer, they are little stinkers!) Plenty of IT jobs about see here for Brisbane jobs[^] We didn't find it hard working in IT here - very similar to the UK in may ways. Work hours tend to be longer (or longer than they were when I was last working in the UK) i.e. 37.5 hour or even 40 hour weeks. 4 weeks paid holiday and 10 days sick/family leave are about the norm Salary for a mid-level dev is probably $80k to $100K (but does vary a lot). Get paid more in Sydney - but property can be expensive depending on the suburb - and the usual big city commute problems arise - but Sydney is fantastic. Brisbane is more laid back (they used to have a sign between NSW and Qld saying "Welcome to Queensland, please set your clock and calendar back 30 years") but it has grown up even in the time we've been around here. we lived in Samford (for example) w
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After yet another dismal British summer (link[^]), I've been thinking about whether to have a go at working abroad (which includes moving the family out with me :omg:). I'm considering the US, Canada and New Zealand (Australia would be too hot for my delicate British nature), but thought I'd ask people from those parts what it's really like to work in software and what the general lifestyles are like? Where are the best regions to find work and nice places to live? If there are any Brits that have moved already, how do things compare with the UK? It's difficult to get a realistic view from the internet (does that surprise anyone?) - it's either everywhere abroad is awful, or everywhere abroad is paradise - so I thought I'd ask here :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
The best place to be a programmer is in your heart of hearts. If you are talking about money, then go where corporate america/britain/russia/japan/etc... is at. Work for the people that can afford to pay you the $$.
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The best place to be a programmer is in your heart of hearts. If you are talking about money, then go where corporate america/britain/russia/japan/etc... is at. Work for the people that can afford to pay you the $$.
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The bottom half of Australia isn't too hot - and if you can put up with a few mid-30's days in summer, the spring and autumn weather is awesome. We live on the Sunshine Coast, emigrated from Pommieland in '92 - kicked ourselves for not having done so sooner. The Boy(TM) was born here and I envy him greatly (although the schools here don't seem to have invented the shower - so after playing footie in the summer, they are little stinkers!) Plenty of IT jobs about see here for Brisbane jobs[^] We didn't find it hard working in IT here - very similar to the UK in may ways. Work hours tend to be longer (or longer than they were when I was last working in the UK) i.e. 37.5 hour or even 40 hour weeks. 4 weeks paid holiday and 10 days sick/family leave are about the norm Salary for a mid-level dev is probably $80k to $100K (but does vary a lot). Get paid more in Sydney - but property can be expensive depending on the suburb - and the usual big city commute problems arise - but Sydney is fantastic. Brisbane is more laid back (they used to have a sign between NSW and Qld saying "Welcome to Queensland, please set your clock and calendar back 30 years") but it has grown up even in the time we've been around here. we lived in Samford (for example) w
That's a lot of excellent information, thanks! :) I think we'll have to visit whichever places we narrow it down to (probably two), thanks for the offer to stop over a night or two :thumbsup:, it'd probably be great to meet up and discuss things if we get over there :) Whichever places we visit, I'll probably try and line up some meetings/interviews with companies if possible to get a feel for the work too.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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Ummm, California has three societal sections - the illegals, the elite, and the people trying to survive the madness. They did elect moon bat Jerry Brown. Very high taxes (course you're coming from the UK), long commutes, very high housing prices. I'd move to NZ before California.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Yeah, that's kind of what's come across in the media, but it's difficult to know how true all that is. A shame if things really have gotten as bad as is portrayed in the news and movies :(
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
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Been to Russia, work in UK at the moment.. just thinking about whether to stay or whether to look elsewhere :)
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
If you are asking the question, the can I assume your are not happy about some part of your current circumstances? Money? If it is money, then my only advice is to go where the money is. I love working here in the States, so the thought of working in another country, has never entered my tiny brain. I can't work for a country that is not an ally of my country.