A debate: making votes non-anonymous
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I like piebalds idea of allowing the user to choose. I think he will be surprised by the result. As an additional bit, add the weighting applied to the vote, this is something I do take note of. If some low rep dweeb feels the need to downvote I am happy to let it go, a high rep I might engage for an explanation/advice.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Personally I don't mind revealing how I vote, and I don't mind knowing who votes me up or down, but this isn't about me is it? What do you want the vote to measure, quality or popularity? If you show who's voting the downvotes will disappear and the rating will lose all meaning, just like it did for the articles. And just like it is for the Lounge. Is it just me that thinks the Lounge was a lot more interesting in the old times before it was filled with daily whatever, or is it my memory that's playing tricks on me.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Much as I swear about people downvoting my posts and would like to know who did it - and why, I don't think revealing that is a good idea. Not without some sort of control, that is. Some people can handle it in a mature way. Others can't - heck they can't even with anonymous votes and go on a witch hunt against the person they THINK downvoted them. Imagine what those people will do if they know for sure... So IF the anonymity is removed, there would need to be some constriction on how many of another person's posts one person can downvote. Another thing: There is (or there should be) a difference between downvoting something and voting it as abuse/spam. Right now, in the forums where downvoting has been disabled, some people take to the abuse/spam vote instead merely because they might not like another person - or so is my general impression anyway. That kinda undermines the meaning of abuse/spam. I say: Bring back anonymous downvoting in all forums (perhaps with the above mentioned restriction) - and make the abuse/spam votes non-anonymous. They're much more serious, and people should be able to see/judge if someone is abusing that system. My 5 cents, for what they're worth Everything said: If the anonymity is completely removed, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. It's good if people (myself included) are forced to stand by their opinions.
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time -
When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
An age old proverb - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Mobile Apps - Sound Meter | Color Analyzer | SMBC | Football Doodles
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An age old proverb - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Mobile Apps - Sound Meter | Color Analyzer | SMBC | Football Doodles
Ah, but maybe it IS broke! Who gets to decide that? ;)
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time -
When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris, an idea: I respect that you want to have opinions as well, but why not make this a yes/no option poll and have people opinionate in the comments? Just to get an overall idea... :cool: Just out of curiosity: What suddenly made you take up this debate again? anything happen? :confused:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time -
Much as I swear about people downvoting my posts and would like to know who did it - and why, I don't think revealing that is a good idea. Not without some sort of control, that is. Some people can handle it in a mature way. Others can't - heck they can't even with anonymous votes and go on a witch hunt against the person they THINK downvoted them. Imagine what those people will do if they know for sure... So IF the anonymity is removed, there would need to be some constriction on how many of another person's posts one person can downvote. Another thing: There is (or there should be) a difference between downvoting something and voting it as abuse/spam. Right now, in the forums where downvoting has been disabled, some people take to the abuse/spam vote instead merely because they might not like another person - or so is my general impression anyway. That kinda undermines the meaning of abuse/spam. I say: Bring back anonymous downvoting in all forums (perhaps with the above mentioned restriction) - and make the abuse/spam votes non-anonymous. They're much more serious, and people should be able to see/judge if someone is abusing that system. My 5 cents, for what they're worth Everything said: If the anonymity is completely removed, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. It's good if people (myself included) are forced to stand by their opinions.
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the timeJohnny J. wrote:
say: Bring back anonymous downvoting in all forums (perhaps with the above mentioned restriction) - and make the abuse/spam votes non-anonymous.
Agreed. Oh, by the way, I upvoted this.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I think the real question is: Are we mature enough (all 10+ million)? Sorry to say, but IMHO: No! If we were we had no problem to reveal the voter's personality, but we had no need anymore... (Idea: You may set a property on the profile page and check after a few months how many choose to be known)
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Against - would degenerate into tit-for-tat up or down votes based on the person not the article. (I say this as a barely functional psychopath myself and imagine I'm not alone in that)
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
We can already be non-anonymous by leaving a comment, right? I think if people wanted to be non-anonymous they'd leave a comment...
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I am FOR showing the names of down-voters. If they truly feel the article or topic warrants a down-vote, then they should be able to stand behind their decision, publicly. A side-effect of this that will most likely be a benefit, is that people will be more careful about publicly down-voting an article or topic, then before, because now, we all know who did it, and they better have a good reason. Most of us are professionals here, and down-voting, when done correctly, is a form of constructive criticism. Showing the names of down-voters, helps the process be done correctly. The only con for this, that comes to my mind, is "tit for tat", childish arguments, that may ensue for a brief period of time. You may see an increase in tattle-telling in the Bugs & Sugs, but that should die down after a while.
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I'd say no. There are pretty nasty people, event between those with high reputation, that are perfectly capable of downvoting each and every message, article and whatsoever for a single downvote. Of course that would count as abuse I hope and expose this adorable guys. Maybe putting in again the downvote on the lounge...
Geek code v 3.12 { GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X } If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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No. Look at it this way; everyone who wants non-anonymous votes always seems to want it on other people's votes, but they never seem to say they want their own votes to be non-anonymous. How's about an experiment -- allow members to make their own votes non-anonymous and see how many actually do. I am against non-anonymous votes. I'd stop voting. This isn't Facebook.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I'd stop voting.
Exactly. If your down votes had any merit, and you could back them up, then you would still down-vote. That is the whole point. You should not be able to down-vote unless you can publicly back it up.
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We can already be non-anonymous by leaving a comment, right? I think if people wanted to be non-anonymous they'd leave a comment...
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I think basing a decision, that affects the majority, on the behaviour of a small minority is never a good move. There will always be outliers in terms of acceptable behaviour and even in this case if non-anonymous voting is bought in - all that will happen is that those people with a downvoting agenda will merely create anonymous user accounts again and again in order to perpetuate their campaign of downvoting. Leave things as they are and the majority of upvoters, where justified, will drown the voice of the sociopathic downvoters where they exist.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
Aaaah the long-lost debate. I used to be in favor for knowing who voted what. Nowadays I care less, but it is useful to know why someone up/downvoted something. That said, perhaps another mechanism can be put in place. Especially for downvotes, you get a "downvote reputation", the higher that "reputation", the less the downvote is weighed (and is counted as minus on your reputation). Upvotes counter the downvote reputation. That way univoters can downvote what they like, it won't be counted anymore after a while. A similar thing could "show" the name of the downvoter when the "downvote reputation" reaches a treshold and of course you can see that reputation on the profile at any time. Just an idea. :-)
V.
(MQOTD rules and previous solutions) -
When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
This could lead to 'revenge' downvoting?
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
As others have said, I am in favor of leaving things as they are. For me, knowing who upvoted me doesn't matter much. And for the downvoters, if they didn't care to state why they downvoted, I do not give a damn about their opinion. For me, it's as simple as that.
You have just been Sharapova'd.
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I'd say yes. If you want to downvote you have to say it publicly; if someone get offended and try to childish counterattack (instead of asking for explanation) would have to do it publicly too; if the thing becomes to much flaming, one or both could be judged as abuse/spam. Maybe one could see the names of the voters only if he has reached a certain amount of reputation on that specific branch (articles, answers, discussions ...) hoping this to be a "grown up" index
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When someone upvotes a message or article I wrote it's nice seeing who it was how voted. Really nice. Conversely when someone downvotes you there's often a "who on Earth would downvote that?" We've talked about this a lot and so I bring this up as something that's already been brought up, but times change as do opinions. So onto the debate: Whereas knowing your admirers and foes brings either a warm fuzzy feeling or concrete contact to discuss improvements, be it resolved that showing names next to votes is a Good Thing. Those debating for the motion please state their case, and those debating against provide their counter-arguments.
cheers Chris Maunder
I think the real question here is : what is the requirement, e.g. why is voting needed ? We need votes: - In articles, since the mass effect brings good (=useful) articles on the top of all others, hence helping the community. - In Q&A and programming forums, to signal a good solution or a good proposition that leads to a solution. We do not need votes: - To express an opinion about the content or about someone. As someone already stated : this is not facebook. Therefore, my proposition: - No voting in non programming related forums -> there is simply no point. - Voting with indication of who voted for articles and questions : this would limit voting to the scope of technical content, and would probably also discourage practices like "univoting" or "voting for my friend because he is my friend".
