Why is Everyone So Scared of Anonymized Data Collection?
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Everything you said is perfectly valid and reasonable, as long as you assume that these big corporations are being completely honest. The trouble is, what a corporation says and what it means are really two different things... What they say: "We will only collect anonymous user statistics, and you will not be identifiable in any way" What they mean: "We collect all of your data, and some guy downstairs is supposed to strip out all of your personal information. All of that stuff is cached and logged somewhere, but no one ever really looks at it. It's not secured or anything... We just all forgot about it. Oh, and we also save everything to a special archive in case the government wants to know the intimate details of your life, because, ya know, it's the law."
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)If you are worried about a corporation being dishonest, then well, the EULA is pointless anyway...they might be collecting all your information and just not telling you.
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I understand, but then why not put up a stink once questionable policies get put into the EULA, as opposed to when the reasonable ones are in there?
Fear sells. Just look at the news. Fear and greed are two of the strongest human emotions.
Jeremy Falcon
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Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
Mike Marynowski wrote:
I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me
AOL search data leak[^] Ashley Madison data breach[^]
Mike Marynowski wrote:
Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you.
How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did[^] These are some that I can remember on the spot. And how could I forget this one: Betrayed by our own data[^]
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
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I understand, but then why not put up a stink once questionable policies get put into the EULA, as opposed to when the reasonable ones are in there?
The average Joe will never read a EULA. They're boring. However, some reporter type who is looking to create an uproar to get more readers might, and then make a stink of it.
Jeremy Falcon
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Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
The problem is that we (as consumers) do not know that a company will remove non-anonymous data from their anonymous data; (grossly exaggerated) Most company will probably just have a SQL query with anonymous data from a large database.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Mike Marynowski wrote:
I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me
AOL search data leak[^] Ashley Madison data breach[^]
Mike Marynowski wrote:
Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you.
How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did[^] These are some that I can remember on the spot. And how could I forget this one: Betrayed by our own data[^]
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
You have some good examples there of why you should be very cautious to agreeing to data collection and take precautions when doing anything you don't want others to find out about, but those don't relate specifically to my examples. I used my examples specifically because in the application example it was *aggregate* usage data being collected, and the GMail example because they *already* have your email contents - all they were doing was scanning them internally to select an Ad for you. On Gmail, while you are looking at your emails. Not on other google services. There's tons of examples of data collection gone wrong, I know, but I'm specifically talking about very limited and targeted usage of data collection.
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Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
Nobody wants anybody else to know how much Pr0n they have collected! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time -
If you are worried about a corporation being dishonest, then well, the EULA is pointless anyway...they might be collecting all your information and just not telling you.
Well yeah... That was my point.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
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Everything you said is perfectly valid and reasonable, as long as you assume that these big corporations are being completely honest. The trouble is, what a corporation says and what it means are really two different things... What they say: "We will only collect anonymous user statistics, and you will not be identifiable in any way" What they mean: "We collect all of your data, and some guy downstairs is supposed to strip out all of your personal information. All of that stuff is cached and logged somewhere, but no one ever really looks at it. It's not secured or anything... We just all forgot about it. Oh, and we also save everything to a special archive in case the government wants to know the intimate details of your life, because, ya know, it's the law."
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)And every Joe in IT has full access to everything and can make copies to sell.
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Nobody wants anybody else to know how much Pr0n they have collected! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the timeBut, I'm already running out of the GBs!
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Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
Take it to the Soap Box. In my opinion... the biggest problem is vagueness and a total lack of enforcibility.
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You have some good examples there of why you should be very cautious to agreeing to data collection and take precautions when doing anything you don't want others to find out about, but those don't relate specifically to my examples. I used my examples specifically because in the application example it was *aggregate* usage data being collected, and the GMail example because they *already* have your email contents - all they were doing was scanning them internally to select an Ad for you. On Gmail, while you are looking at your emails. Not on other google services. There's tons of examples of data collection gone wrong, I know, but I'm specifically talking about very limited and targeted usage of data collection.
Mike Marynowski wrote:
There's tons of examples of data collection gone wrong, I know, but I'm specifically talking about very limited and targeted usage of data collection.
What really constitute limited, targeted and anonymized data usage? It *might* be very limited and targeted usage (if you choose to believe), but what happens when sh*t hits the fan? AOL data supposed to be anonymous. Another example that I've just remembered: Motorola Is Listening[^] I don't know what their privacy policy looked like, but I'm sure as hell it didn't say they were collecting passwords and send them over unsecured HTTP channel :wtf:
GeoGame for Windows Phone | The Lounge Explained In 5 Minutes
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Take it to the Soap Box. In my opinion... the biggest problem is vagueness and a total lack of enforcibility.
Why would I do that? I prefer a civil discussion and this isn't a rant. I suppose I'm starting to see the problem but freaking out about a reasonable clause in the EULA isn't going to help the situation. If company's receive tons of backlash for even the most basic aggregate data collection then they will just do it without letting you know. Especially the kind of company that will tell you they are only collecting aggregate data but collecting more than just that. The chances of being caught are pretty low. I think perhaps some regulations should be put into place about *exactly* how aggregate data or anonymized data must be stored. I'm not particularly versed in this area so if someone knows more about existing regulations in this regard I would be curious to know. I did a bunch of work in credit card processing and what you can store, how to store it, and how to use is it outlined in exacting detail when getting a new system certified.
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Why would I do that? I prefer a civil discussion and this isn't a rant. I suppose I'm starting to see the problem but freaking out about a reasonable clause in the EULA isn't going to help the situation. If company's receive tons of backlash for even the most basic aggregate data collection then they will just do it without letting you know. Especially the kind of company that will tell you they are only collecting aggregate data but collecting more than just that. The chances of being caught are pretty low. I think perhaps some regulations should be put into place about *exactly* how aggregate data or anonymized data must be stored. I'm not particularly versed in this area so if someone knows more about existing regulations in this regard I would be curious to know. I did a bunch of work in credit card processing and what you can store, how to store it, and how to use is it outlined in exacting detail when getting a new system certified.
It's Politically Charged.
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It's Politically Charged.
Not really, I just want to know what reason people have for personally being worried about basic data collection policies. People aren't going to start throwing personal shots at each other because someone doesn't care about their privacy. We aren't discussing abortions here...
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Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
Mike Marynowski wrote:
Why all the privacy hysteria these days?
Because, because, because. That's why, that's why, that's why. You can tell people til you're blue in the face that they release more 'private' information about themselves every time they use a debit or credit card, make a phone call, register to vote, join a library, or apply for a driver's licence or passport, but people are basically incredibly dense when it comes to risk assessment of any kind. According to recent worries, after all, we should all be wandering in the desert with mad cow disease, those of us that somehow managed to avoid dying of AIDS or bird flu that is! Hysteria sells papers, panic is an economic opportunity like no other! The last thing you want to be doing is attempting to muddy the waters with fact and logic. Just hunker down, see out the storm, and wait for somebody to come up with something new for people to get themselves all het up about, then count all the money you made from selling the tin hats!
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Mike Marynowski wrote:
Why all the privacy hysteria these days?
Because, because, because. That's why, that's why, that's why. You can tell people til you're blue in the face that they release more 'private' information about themselves every time they use a debit or credit card, make a phone call, register to vote, join a library, or apply for a driver's licence or passport, but people are basically incredibly dense when it comes to risk assessment of any kind. According to recent worries, after all, we should all be wandering in the desert with mad cow disease, those of us that somehow managed to avoid dying of AIDS or bird flu that is! Hysteria sells papers, panic is an economic opportunity like no other! The last thing you want to be doing is attempting to muddy the waters with fact and logic. Just hunker down, see out the storm, and wait for somebody to come up with something new for people to get themselves all het up about, then count all the money you made from selling the tin hats!
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Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
Because my business is my business! If I wanted all my stuff out on the internet for everyone's perusal, I would give it to my ex. :)
New version: WinHeist Version
When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page. Unknown -
Please don't set me on fire. Serious question. Why is everyone's "privacy" of such grave concern to them, in the case of anonymous usage data? I understand that mistakes happen, oversights happen and it's possible that personal information could slip in, or based on a process of elimination from the set of data you might be able to narrow down to a likely person, etc. But in the case of agreeing to have anonymized data collected, anyone actually doing so with that data would seem to me to be an illegal use of that data, so of what practical use would this be? There are obviously cases where a data collection policy goes too far and the risk that personal details of importance might leak is too high, but everyone FREAKS OUT and uninstalls a piece of software that adds "You agree that we can collect basic aggregate usage data in the application such as the frequency that each menu option is used." OMGGG MY PRIVACY HAS BEEN VIOLATED!! Slight exaggeration but you know what I mean. This kind of data is used to help improve the application you are using, why wouldn't you want to help the developers make it better? I would like to demonstrate with a specific example of a privacy concern that completely eludes me. Gmail once upon a time decided to start scanning the contents of your emails to deliver targeted ads that are more likely to be of interest to you. Everyone lost their bananas over this. WHY??? They aren't sharing the contents of your emails to anyone, nobody is reading it, they are using a bot to scan the email for keywords and match an ad to it. People are so scared of targeted advertising, I don't get it. If there is going to be a portion of the screen dedicated to showing an ad, wouldn't you rather it be filled with developer tools or services you might *actually* be interested in instead of a random ad? I know I would. Why all the privacy hysteria these days? *Ducks and hides under desk in preparation of being attacked by crowd with pitchforks and torches* EDIT (2015/09/24 11:02 AM) - EPILOGUE: I guess for the most part my question has been answered. There are several compounding factors that add to all the problems: - corporate misuse of the data - companies "promising" to anonymize the data but failing to actually do so through malice or ineptitude - leaks of this misused and improperly anonymized data (added 11:34 AM) - and one *really* big problem that I neglected to take into account, mostly because it hasn't become as big a deal where I'm from as the US: government access to t
