Volkswagen cheat switch #2
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The cars passed emission tests when tested on dynamos, but not when equipment was placed in the trunk. The testing facility has been conducting these tests for over 20 years. VW got caught defrauding the public; at least they were willing to admit it rather than continue the charade. And, if they didn't want to pass U.S. emission tests, don't plan to sell their product here.
Tim Carmichael wrote:
And, if they didn't want to pass U.S. emission tests, don't plan to sell their product here
Hey, its the US, lying to make money is the norm isn't it? Like I said, they could have passed it off as a mistake and saved a lot of expense.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Why the hell did they confess to cheating?
They were caught by independent testers so I guess they thought the game was up. They were first caught out a few years back and did indeed blame it on a glitch, but the testers didn't give up and passed their finding onto the authorities and the pressure stayed. They will have simply looked at the source and found the offending code. If they continued to deny it they'd only make things worse for themselves in the long run. Also I think the CEO's contract was coming to an end anyway? He probably thought he'd fess up then resign. Which he has done. I'm sure he'll find another equally well paying job at an equal position in some other company though. He probably starts on Monday. Also I think the same issue effects European cars too.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
They will have simply looked at the source and found the offending code.
Who gave the US authorities the code, and even then they could have pretended it was just test code that got into the product by mistake. After all, its happened to everyone in the IT industry! Doesn't matter if everyone believes or not, right now, they are up for being sued for every car they made in the last 15 years!
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Yes, I know that. The point is why confess? They could have passed it off as a mistake, 'some test code got in by error, honest guv' kind of thing, Would have been a lot cheaper!
Nope. They are still looking for the scapegoat for public execution. If they only had known what that guy was up to...
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
They tried that in April. VW Recall Letters in April[^]
They should have stuck to it. How many of us have had test code end up in our product by mistake? Its very easy, stick to the story, destroy some paperwork, lose some emails, and its all taken care of. Works for the US govt, and the global warming scammers!
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Why the hell did they confess to cheating? The cars pass all European emissions tests, its part of the yearly technical test all cars have to go through, so its only the US. They could have put it down to a SW glitch, and done a US recall only and saved themselves the utter disaster they are facing now. Idiots.
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Nope. They are still looking for the scapegoat for public execution. If they only had known what that guy was up to...
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.They are Germans, therefor crap at deceiving people. That's why they confessed and didn't create an elaborate cover up, they aren't capable of doing so.
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They are Germans, therefor crap at deceiving people. That's why they confessed and didn't create an elaborate cover up, they aren't capable of doing so.
By the way, would you like to buy a bridge? Edit: This reminds me of a friend who once told the waiter in an Italian restaurant what the Mafia does or does not do. Their little talk ended with "I am Sicilian." In a very cold tone. :-)
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
They will have simply looked at the source and found the offending code.
Who gave the US authorities the code, and even then they could have pretended it was just test code that got into the product by mistake. After all, its happened to everyone in the IT industry! Doesn't matter if everyone believes or not, right now, they are up for being sued for every car they made in the last 15 years!
A car's ECU is no different from a PC...the code is stored on a ROM and you download the contents of the ROM and disassemble it. People have been doing this with car ECUs for years. I think it's "harder" in the US due to local laws, but in the UK you can't patent software and there is no protection against decompilation. Ultimately the US government will have the power to demand the source if independent testers couldn't access it itself, so VW will have known the gig was up.
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They should have stuck to it. How many of us have had test code end up in our product by mistake? Its very easy, stick to the story, destroy some paperwork, lose some emails, and its all taken care of. Works for the US govt, and the global warming scammers!
You WANT them to lie and cheat and steal? Sorry, but your moral/ethical compass seems to be a little stuck. IMHO, I think it's better for the company to fess up and take their medicine. They need to fix their reputation. Even if they cover stuff up and avoid prosecution, people will find out via rumors, media, etc. if the company is shady or not. I give them kudos for cowboying up and cleaning up their mess. Or at least starting to.
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Probably because any decent investigative journalist would've kept digging and exposed it as being far too designed to be a simple glitch which would've been even worse because then everyone would've known that they were still attempting to hide it.
Yes, "Investigative Journalists" are smart enough to evaluate software and determine if it was designed this way or was a glitch. Haha hohoho. What a hoot. :laugh: I already know your reply... These "Investigative Journalists" would've asked someone who is smart. But you forget, they still wouldn't have understood the answer. :laugh: Journalist: "Uh, so are you saying uh...that wait...what was the question I was asking...?" :laugh:
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Why the hell did they confess to cheating? The cars pass all European emissions tests, its part of the yearly technical test all cars have to go through, so its only the US. They could have put it down to a SW glitch, and done a US recall only and saved themselves the utter disaster they are facing now. Idiots.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Why the hell did they confess to cheating?
Because it was proved that the software reacted differently when the drive pattern of the emission test was detected. I know of no "SW glitch" that actively detect a drive pattern and only in this case change the emissions. I know a lot of people are SW illiterate, so you can explain a lot by "well, it's software", but there is a limit you cannot overcome, I think.
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I'm not sure if covering it up would have saved them much. They were pretty much caught and exposed on the get go by EPA. It's like saying you didn't take the cookie from the cookie jar while your hand is still in it.
Silvabolt wrote:
while your hand is still in it.
*while everybody's hand is still in*. Since they are most probably not the only ones to do it, they could have underestimated the outcome.
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
And, if they didn't want to pass U.S. emission tests, don't plan to sell their product here
Hey, its the US, lying to make money is the norm isn't it? Like I said, they could have passed it off as a mistake and saved a lot of expense.
The rumours of the death of honesty in business in the U.S. have been greatly exaggerated, despite media portrayals.
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You WANT them to lie and cheat and steal? Sorry, but your moral/ethical compass seems to be a little stuck. IMHO, I think it's better for the company to fess up and take their medicine. They need to fix their reputation. Even if they cover stuff up and avoid prosecution, people will find out via rumors, media, etc. if the company is shady or not. I give them kudos for cowboying up and cleaning up their mess. Or at least starting to.
Well, actually I'd prefer a dishonest company to a dumb one. One can be dishonest at times but if he's dumb he's always dumb. After all they didn't cheat the customers but the insensate regulations of an abusive organizations, which goes as far as defining the acceptable range of curvatures of bananas. The things I care in buying a car are: - reliability; - safety; - upfront cost; - maintenance cost; - comfort; All the rest is marketing.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Well, actually I'd prefer a dishonest company to a dumb one. One can be dishonest at times but if he's dumb he's always dumb. After all they didn't cheat the customers but the insensate regulations of an abusive organizations, which goes as far as defining the acceptable range of curvatures of bananas. The things I care in buying a car are: - reliability; - safety; - upfront cost; - maintenance cost; - comfort; All the rest is marketing.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
Those are the things YOU care about in buying a car. But some people do include environmental issues in their decision. Those are the people who have been cheated. They advertised a car that had a certain feature, and it didn't really have that feature.
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Yes, "Investigative Journalists" are smart enough to evaluate software and determine if it was designed this way or was a glitch. Haha hohoho. What a hoot. :laugh: I already know your reply... These "Investigative Journalists" would've asked someone who is smart. But you forget, they still wouldn't have understood the answer. :laugh: Journalist: "Uh, so are you saying uh...that wait...what was the question I was asking...?" :laugh:
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That's a fair point, I'm just saying that sooner or later it would've come out, whether by a journalist or by some other investigation or hell, even by accident via a leaked internal memo.
I agree with you really. I'm mostly just joking around but it is interesting how little depth we often get from the journalists.