How many devices do you have plugged in to your USB port(s)?
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USB3 is theoretically in the same speed class as sata, so it could be as fast as an internal (non-PCIe) SSD; with 3.1 being comparable to 2 PCIe 2.0 lanes. In practice, even devices marketed as USB SSDs generally are 4 flash chip models (laptop or budget desktop equivalent) not 8 chips like higher end desktop SSDs and fall short of high end models. Ones marketed as just high capacity flash drives generally have only 1 flash chip and a crappy controller and are much slower. Cheap USB3 flash drives use bottom binned flash and crappier controllers and make the former look good. USB2 is slow enough that all flash drives will suck similarly.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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USB3 is theoretically in the same speed class as sata, so it could be as fast as an internal (non-PCIe) SSD; with 3.1 being comparable to 2 PCIe 2.0 lanes. In practice, even devices marketed as USB SSDs generally are 4 flash chip models (laptop or budget desktop equivalent) not 8 chips like higher end desktop SSDs and fall short of high end models. Ones marketed as just high capacity flash drives generally have only 1 flash chip and a crappy controller and are much slower. Cheap USB3 flash drives use bottom binned flash and crappier controllers and make the former look good. USB2 is slow enough that all flash drives will suck similarly.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
What's the advantage to having more flash chips, aside from perhaps higher capacity?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
(writing ATM software)
Hey Marc ol' buddy ol' pal... you, uh, mind writing me a backdoor into that by chance?
Jeremy Falcon
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What's the advantage to having more flash chips, aside from perhaps higher capacity?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Parallelism. Reading from/writing to 8 chips can be twice as fast as 4, although normally a bit less in practice because especially for reads you rarely get the data equally spread out over all the chips and on sata devices sequential IO is bottlenecked by the bus. 4 vs 2 or 1 is more dramatic because even easy cases can end up not saturating the bus before maxing the flash out. (If you want to go deeper into the weeds, for a lot of things its the number of flash dies that really count not the number of chips, and 8x8 die chips will perform similarly to 4x16 die ones. This is a big part of why small capacity SSDs are slower than larger ones: as the individual flash dies get denser the bottom end doesn't have enough to keep up with what the controller is capable of. Generally this is only a significant factor with the lowest size drive in a lineup, with the middle and upper ones performing similarly. The SSD makers seem to've learned their lesson when a round of die shrinks meant that 128GB SSDs were feeling the too few die bottleneck, while 64GB ones were performing awfully.)
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Parallelism. Reading from/writing to 8 chips can be twice as fast as 4, although normally a bit less in practice because especially for reads you rarely get the data equally spread out over all the chips and on sata devices sequential IO is bottlenecked by the bus. 4 vs 2 or 1 is more dramatic because even easy cases can end up not saturating the bus before maxing the flash out. (If you want to go deeper into the weeds, for a lot of things its the number of flash dies that really count not the number of chips, and 8x8 die chips will perform similarly to 4x16 die ones. This is a big part of why small capacity SSDs are slower than larger ones: as the individual flash dies get denser the bottom end doesn't have enough to keep up with what the controller is capable of. Generally this is only a significant factor with the lowest size drive in a lineup, with the middle and upper ones performing similarly. The SSD makers seem to've learned their lesson when a round of die shrinks meant that 128GB SSDs were feeling the too few die bottleneck, while 64GB ones were performing awfully.)
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Thanks, Dan. :)
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Since my PC is an Intel NUC, I've got practically everything running off of USB instead of the usual connectors. It's got exactly one USB port in use, and it's going to a Plugable UD-3000 USB hub, which provides an additional VGA port, Ethernet, audio and a bunch of additional USB3 connectors, one of which is going back to another hub. The following are all hooked up via USB: - Keyboard - Mouse - SoundBlaster X-Fi (5.1 audio) - Two monitors - External SATA/USB hard drive adapter (the toaster kind where you just pop in a drive, not an enclosure) - DVD burner - Web cam (which fell somewhere behind my monitor eons ago but is still plugged in) - MicroSD reader - One or two extra cables for recharging devices - Zune (seriously, this thing won't die and I listen to podcasts on it daily) The printers (one color / one B&W), scanner and UPS are all hooked up to other computers so I don't suppose they count.
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Thanks, Dan. :)
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Kinda like RAID-0 for flash chips I guess.
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
- credit card reader
- ID scanner
- Verifone pinpa
I'm surprised the spam filter didn't jump to conclusions on this one...
cheers Chris Maunder
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
None.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
At work: Let's start out with the ten Bluetooth Smart dongles... Yeah, we develop them, and the software to mesh them up in a network. The protocol sniffer for testing and a Bluetooth master, of course. Mouse and keyboard and headphones and Skype speaker and portable disk. And the wireless charger. That's the fixed stuff. All the time there is a need for plugging in signal analyzers and temperature sensors and that kind of stuff. FPGA boards. Sometimes, we need USB-to-RS232 adapters to interface to lab equipment lacking USB interface. If the two 10-way hubs get full (not too often, though), there are usually a couple extra sockets left in the PC. At home it is more limited. Keyboard, mouse, webcam and headphones, printer and flatbed scanner, of course. Usually two portable disks. A multistandard card reader, a numeric keypad, a thermometer, an ISDN adapter, three Arduino cards, a software license dongle and a MIDI cable to my old style keyboard (which only has archaic 5-pin DIN connectors). A transmitter for old-style infrared remote control. Temporary connections for cellphone charging, for my two still photo cameras and video camera. Every now and then someone comes with a floppy disk, so I have to plug in that USB floppy unit. I also have an SATA-to-USB adapter that comes in handy when someone has trouble with their disks and wants me to look at it. I actually have an external CD-reader I use now and then to play my single(!) multichannel audio DTS CD - I haven't found a way to read it through my PC software, but I can hook up a digital cable from the "raw" output of the external CD player, directly to my amplifier, and it will play it, while the player is controlled by the PC (even if it cannot reproduce the sound). ... Are there really that many cables behind my PC, without me worrying about it? Well, blame it on cables being orderly fixed to the wall where appropriate, and proper use of hubs to move the cable mess away from the main box. Actually, the USB usage is more varied at home than at work, even though the total count may be higher at work. I've never been even close to the USB limit of 128 units on a single hub (or rather: tree), though, neither at work nor at home. We did have some issues at work with the optical fiber USB units; the firmware in those switches were limited to 13 units (and remember that the hubs also count as a unit), so running ten Bluetooth slaves and a master left no room for other USB functions. For new setups, we have different solution without that limitation.
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
At work: Let's start out with the ten Bluetooth Smart dongles... Yeah, we develop them, and the software to mesh them up in a network. The protocol sniffer for testing and a Bluetooth master, of course. Mouse and keyboard and headphones and Skype speaker and portable disk. And the wireless charger. That's the fixed stuff. All the time there is a need for plugging in signal analyzers and temperature sensors and that kind of stuff. FPGA boards. Sometimes, we need USB-to-RS232 adapters to interface to lab equipment lacking USB interface. If the two 10-way hubs get full (not too often, though), there are usually a couple extra sockets left in the PC. At home it is more limited. Keyboard, mouse, webcam and headphones, printer and flatbed scanner, of course. Usually two portable disks. A multistandard card reader, a numeric keypad, a thermometer, an ISDN adapter, three Arduino cards, a software license dongle and a MIDI cable to my old style keyboard (which only has archaic 5-pin DIN connectors). A transmitter for old-style infrared remote control. Temporary connections for cellphone charging, for my two still photo cameras and video camera. Every now and then someone comes with a floppy disk, so I have to plug in that USB floppy unit. I also have an SATA-to-USB adapter that comes in handy when someone has trouble with their disks and wants me to look at it. I actually have an external CD-reader I use now and then to play my single(!) multichannel audio DTS CD - I haven't found a way to read it through my PC software, but I can hook up a digital cable from the "raw" output of the external CD player, directly to my amplifier, and it will play it, while the player is controlled by the PC (even if it cannot reproduce the sound). ... Are there really that many cables behind my PC, without me worrying about it? Well, blame it on cables being orderly fixed to the wall where appropriate, and proper use of hubs to move the cable mess away from the main box. Actually, the USB usage is more varied at home than at work, even though the total count may be higher at work. I've never been even close to the USB limit of 128 units on a single hub (or rather: tree), though, neither at work nor at home. We did have some issues at work with the optical fiber USB units; the firmware in those switches were limited to 13 units (and remember that the hubs also count as a unit), so running ten Bluetooth slaves and a master left no room for other USB functions. For new setups, we have different solution without that limitation.
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At work: Let's start out with the ten Bluetooth Smart dongles... Yeah, we develop them, and the software to mesh them up in a network. The protocol sniffer for testing and a Bluetooth master, of course. Mouse and keyboard and headphones and Skype speaker and portable disk. And the wireless charger. That's the fixed stuff. All the time there is a need for plugging in signal analyzers and temperature sensors and that kind of stuff. FPGA boards. Sometimes, we need USB-to-RS232 adapters to interface to lab equipment lacking USB interface. If the two 10-way hubs get full (not too often, though), there are usually a couple extra sockets left in the PC. At home it is more limited. Keyboard, mouse, webcam and headphones, printer and flatbed scanner, of course. Usually two portable disks. A multistandard card reader, a numeric keypad, a thermometer, an ISDN adapter, three Arduino cards, a software license dongle and a MIDI cable to my old style keyboard (which only has archaic 5-pin DIN connectors). A transmitter for old-style infrared remote control. Temporary connections for cellphone charging, for my two still photo cameras and video camera. Every now and then someone comes with a floppy disk, so I have to plug in that USB floppy unit. I also have an SATA-to-USB adapter that comes in handy when someone has trouble with their disks and wants me to look at it. I actually have an external CD-reader I use now and then to play my single(!) multichannel audio DTS CD - I haven't found a way to read it through my PC software, but I can hook up a digital cable from the "raw" output of the external CD player, directly to my amplifier, and it will play it, while the player is controlled by the PC (even if it cannot reproduce the sound). ... Are there really that many cables behind my PC, without me worrying about it? Well, blame it on cables being orderly fixed to the wall where appropriate, and proper use of hubs to move the cable mess away from the main box. Actually, the USB usage is more varied at home than at work, even though the total count may be higher at work. I've never been even close to the USB limit of 128 units on a single hub (or rather: tree), though, neither at work nor at home. We did have some issues at work with the optical fiber USB units; the firmware in those switches were limited to 13 units (and remember that the hubs also count as a unit), so running ten Bluetooth slaves and a master left no room for other USB functions. For new setups, we have different solution without that limitation.
Holy cow. That's all of stuff. Sounds like you're doing a lot interesting things! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Would it be as fast as an internal SSD? Would the USB interface slow it down?
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Nish Nishant wrote:
Would it be as fast as an internal SSD?
The laptop comes with a couple USB 3 ports, which is what it's plugged into. I haven't done any speed tests, but it hums along (well, given that it's silent, it doesn't really hum) quite nicely. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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None.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
Brisingr Aerowing wrote:
None.
Ah, you're ports are virgin! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Nish Nishant wrote:
Would it be as fast as an internal SSD?
The laptop comes with a couple USB 3 ports, which is what it's plugged into. I haven't done any speed tests, but it hums along (well, given that it's silent, it doesn't really hum) quite nicely. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Since my PC is an Intel NUC, I've got practically everything running off of USB instead of the usual connectors. It's got exactly one USB port in use, and it's going to a Plugable UD-3000 USB hub, which provides an additional VGA port, Ethernet, audio and a bunch of additional USB3 connectors, one of which is going back to another hub. The following are all hooked up via USB: - Keyboard - Mouse - SoundBlaster X-Fi (5.1 audio) - Two monitors - External SATA/USB hard drive adapter (the toaster kind where you just pop in a drive, not an enclosure) - DVD burner - Web cam (which fell somewhere behind my monitor eons ago but is still plugged in) - MicroSD reader - One or two extra cables for recharging devices - Zune (seriously, this thing won't die and I listen to podcasts on it daily) The printers (one color / one B&W), scanner and UPS are all hooked up to other computers so I don't suppose they count.
dandy72 wrote:
Plugable UD-3000 USB
Ooh, I'm going to have to take a look at that. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
-
I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
I have two on front-panel and four on back-panel on my desktop (no laptop for myself - it is for my wife)... Occasionally I connect my phone to charge it via the computer (when I want it to be close to me while working)... All my keyboard/mouse/printer are wireless... No credit cards to read... The speakers are powered from the wall... No external drives... However - this week I started to work on an Arduino based project and it takes an USB port to work on it...
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
I think that I can come close.... 1. Mouse dongle 2. Keyboard dongle (yeah I know about unifying, but...) 3. FiiO DAC 4. Dymo Labelmaker 5. FitBit dongle 6. External SATA drive bay 7. 1TB 2"1/2 drive 8. E-cig charger 9. Another E-cig 10. Multi-card SD/CF reader That's all folks!
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I've got two four port hubs and 3 ports on the laptop, making for: 1. keyboard (laptop keyboard is not for high speed typing) 2. mouse 3. laptop USB 1 to DVI converter for 3rd monitor 4. 512GB external SSD 5. printer 6. laptop USB 2 to hub 7. laptop USB 3 to hub 8. powering crappy speakers 9. credit card reader 10. ID scanner 11. Verifone pinpad Item 9-11 are related to my current job (writing ATM software) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
