Is Software career for extroverts?
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
I've met and worked with lots of introverts. It'll help if you get a job at a "digital agency" that does everything, as there won't just be coders there, but designers, marketers etc. If you want to see if she is suitable for life as a developer then this is what you do; ask her to paint the exterior of the house from top to bottom, to mow the lawn and the lawns of your neighbours, then clean all the windows of your own house and those of your neighbours. Tell he she has to do it in a single day, and when she's done don't say anything. Don't congratulate her, don't thank her, just say nothing. If never getting thanks or praise for the work you do upsets her, then development isn't for her :D
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kdmote wrote:
Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
Does it matter? Why are you looking for others to help justify your desire for her to follow in your footsteps? Let her choose her own path, and then support her in whatever SHE chooses.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
Fair reply. And honestly I very much intend to support her choice, whatever it may be. Its not that I want her to follow my path; I just want her to maximize the God-given potential that is so evident in her. I don't care what she chooses; I just want to help her make a choice that she will be thrilled with (and one where she is likely to find a job she enjoys). Her theatrical aptitude is fantastic; but her technical aptitude is also, and I would like to encourage her not to shun the latter in her ambition for the former.
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
When I was in college, one of my classmates was someone who had worked as a night auditor for 8 years... and wanted a career change. After a couple of years, he realized this wasn't exactly what he wanted, but was able to merge both his past experience and current training... he got a job as the liaison between the accounting department and the computer department as a company. For him, it was the perfect fit.
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
kdmote wrote:
that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people
She needs to pass this test: 1. What are the actors names of the original Star Trek series? 2. Who is HAL? 3. What is the connection between THX and Star Wars? I strongly suspect she is looking for a *different* group of outgoing and extroverted people. I'd actually suggest social work, psychology, or teaching. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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kdmote wrote:
that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people
She needs to pass this test: 1. What are the actors names of the original Star Trek series? 2. Who is HAL? 3. What is the connection between THX and Star Wars? I strongly suspect she is looking for a *different* group of outgoing and extroverted people. I'd actually suggest social work, psychology, or teaching. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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When I was in college, one of my classmates was someone who had worked as a night auditor for 8 years... and wanted a career change. After a couple of years, he realized this wasn't exactly what he wanted, but was able to merge both his past experience and current training... he got a job as the liaison between the accounting department and the computer department as a company. For him, it was the perfect fit.
Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch, where the fellow wanted to be a "Lion Tamer", but decided to take a smaller step and move into accounting.... :)
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kdmote wrote:
Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
Does it matter? Why are you looking for others to help justify your desire for her to follow in your footsteps? Let her choose her own path, and then support her in whatever SHE chooses.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
:thumbsup:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Fair reply. And honestly I very much intend to support her choice, whatever it may be. Its not that I want her to follow my path; I just want her to maximize the God-given potential that is so evident in her. I don't care what she chooses; I just want to help her make a choice that she will be thrilled with (and one where she is likely to find a job she enjoys). Her theatrical aptitude is fantastic; but her technical aptitude is also, and I would like to encourage her not to shun the latter in her ambition for the former.
Why do you assume that the theatrical route precludes the technical? Very odd given the vast range of technology now in use in film, theatre, and television. And does she really need coding to exploit her skills therein, anyway? Clearly it's nonsense to say that you don't care what she chooses. You obviously do or you wouldn't be asking the question in the first place!
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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kdmote wrote:
that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people
She needs to pass this test: 1. What are the actors names of the original Star Trek series? 2. Who is HAL? 3. What is the connection between THX and Star Wars? I strongly suspect she is looking for a *different* group of outgoing and extroverted people. I'd actually suggest social work, psychology, or teaching. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Teaching is a good idea - if she also likes wearing body armour...it's getting dangerous out there! :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
It takes all sorts: the stereotype of the shy anorak-wearing geek sitting meekly in the corner is long dead. When I first tried to get an IT job I was told I was too extrovert. That was clearly nonsense.
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Why do you assume that the theatrical route precludes the technical? Very odd given the vast range of technology now in use in film, theatre, and television. And does she really need coding to exploit her skills therein, anyway? Clearly it's nonsense to say that you don't care what she chooses. You obviously do or you wouldn't be asking the question in the first place!
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
kdmote wrote:
I want her to be a coder
Why, it's her life, let her do whatever she wants. and the chances are that whatever she chooses to major in, she will find other interests as time goes by and could easily end up working in a completeley different field. As with all things in life one learns as one goes along.
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kdmote wrote:
Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
Does it matter? Why are you looking for others to help justify your desire for her to follow in your footsteps? Let her choose her own path, and then support her in whatever SHE chooses.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
kdmote wrote:
She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre
DavidCrow wrote:
Let her choose her own path, and then support her in whatever SHE chooses.
If she goes into Theatre, chances are that Dad will be supporting her. :sigh:
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
Look at it from a different angle. Ask your daughter what kind of problem she would like to solve in the world when she'll grow up, or more positive, what would she like to improve in the world. With that in mind; she will say, i'd like to do such and such, and then tell her or show her what kind of education she will need to achieve her goal. For example. Let's say she like theater, and she'd like to do weird stage lighting and projections and automate stage configuration, then she could do some sort if engineering (programming, automation, robotics) courses and theater courses. Let's say she'd like to "end world hunger", then she would need to go into some sort of agriculture and bio-engineering courses. Let's say she'd like to setup microfinance banking in under developed countries, then she would need to go into finance, and a little bit of international law... I think you should get the idea by now. In short Ask what she would like to do, and then show her what she needs to learn to be able to do that.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Look at it from a different angle. Ask your daughter what kind of problem she would like to solve in the world when she'll grow up, or more positive, what would she like to improve in the world. With that in mind; she will say, i'd like to do such and such, and then tell her or show her what kind of education she will need to achieve her goal. For example. Let's say she like theater, and she'd like to do weird stage lighting and projections and automate stage configuration, then she could do some sort if engineering (programming, automation, robotics) courses and theater courses. Let's say she'd like to "end world hunger", then she would need to go into some sort of agriculture and bio-engineering courses. Let's say she'd like to setup microfinance banking in under developed countries, then she would need to go into finance, and a little bit of international law... I think you should get the idea by now. In short Ask what she would like to do, and then show her what she needs to learn to be able to do that.
I'd rather be phishing!
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
There was an extroverted developer on my team a few years back. We're all glad he's gone. Too disruptive. Having said that, nor does being a developer preclude acting. I was in a community play last fall. One of the other cast members had a degree in theatre, but she wasn't using it. In fact she just moved to Redmond...
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
Can't really speak for dev jobs around the world, but where I live (Sweden), most dev jobs (especially smaller companies) are NOT cubicles of introverts hammering away anymore. It's very much a team effort, lots of meetings and socializing at the office aswell as after office hours (afterworks, dinners etc). The work environment is based around the idea that the employer provides an office space with different setups (ordinary desks, smaller rooms that you can withdraw to if you need to focus, lounge areas etc) where the employees find the place that suits them the best for the day and just get on with their projects from there. So at least over here it's been a radical change from the days when every developer had their small cubicle where they were to create splendid code by themselves like robots. :) I'm pretty extrovert myself and I enjoy life as a systems developer, so I don't think it's an obstacle as such. :thumbsup:
Wexelblats algorithm: Pick two: 1. Good, 2. Fast, 3. Cheap
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
To answer the subject question: Yes, software is a career for all types of personalities. I went to college with a woman who was a music major, she got a BA in Music (can't recall exact focus). Prior to graduation she took a look at the world, and immediately got a MS in MIS. Her day job was working in IS (we worked together for a while) while she taught cello and performed in area orchestras. She got the best of both worlds -- a good living wage AND her music. Fast forward 20+ years. My son (high school senior) is a tubist, LOVES playing. We discussed his future at length, and he realizes that making a good living from the tuba isn't likely -- other than Deathtongue I can't think of any rock tubists. ;P His plan is chemical engineering with a minor in music. He plans to follow in the footsteps of my old friend, having a good day job while continuing to perform. [Teaching music is out for him, he has no interest.] A friend's daughter is a dancer. She loves performance and is really good ... but is realistic about the career. Her college major is in business, she's setting herself up to teach and manage her own business, understanding that the long view requires a Plan B beyond performance. My advice? Talk to your daughter about the realistic view of theatre. Help her research jobs, careers, wages, etc. She has to do this herself, if you do it she may not truly believe it. Others have mentioned the technical end of theatre -- that might be the best fit, she can enjoy performance while building other options. But in the end, it's her decision. Help her evaluate her choices and ensure she has multiple paths to success. The hardest part of parenting is letting go ... :laugh:
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
In my experience I see extroverts thrive better in career than introverts. I see the colleagues that ended up on executive levels to be more extroverts, able for speaking in front of a crowd (something like in theater) and able to communicate well. I think she would have a good chance on that path, by starting as coder and moving up the executive ladder. I definitely think she should consider it. Try her, check if she likes to code, one day she might end up in front of a crowd anyway. ;P But ultimately it must be her choice.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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My daughter is trying to choose her major in college. Of course, I want her to be a coder, just like good ol' dad, but... She is the butterfly of all extroverts and she wants to choose a career that will allow her to be with people... A LOT. She cant think of anything more dreadful than being stuck in a cubicle all day. (Her one computing class just reinforced her suspicion that software development is a boring, lifeless, punishment for introverts only.) She's vivacious, outgoing, creative, hilarious... and wants to major in Theatre. But she is also very smart at things like math and "puzzles" and logic. Last night I assured her that there are a lot of software jobs that are filled with outgoing and extroverted people (but inwardly I felt guilty for inventing such a fiction). Seriously though: do you know any social butterflies that have found a satisfying niche in the software industry?
First, let go of it being a binary choice. I have been a busboy, bartender, pinjumper, security gaurd, worked a cash register, fast food, and countless other jobs. My daughter is 16, and very similar to yours. She is a paid tutor at the local university for college kids, and in her second year of full-time college herself. But she just finished her first screenplay, and loves literature. She dreads computing for the same reasons your daughter does. As a parent, I am MAKING her get a degree in Accounting, and she is getting a second degree in English Literature. One does not go to college/university without acquiring a marketable skill (IMHO). But that is where I stop. She will have enough skills to feed herself. Outside of that, I only need to: A) Teach her right from wrong (done) B) Teach her Want from Need (almost there... she IS a teenager) C) Let her know that she is responsible for finding her own way and her own happiness I think giving your daughter ANY false guidance is a bad idea. We were given children, and our job is to form them into well-adjusted adults before we let them loose onto the world!
