Do women have a brain to program?
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Right. Consider this. I'm a senior software developer, designer and systems architect within my company. In my previous company (I left for financial reasons in 1998) I was a team leader, dealt extensively with customers (both civil and military) and represented my team in technical meetings up to Board level. I've had to do selling price estimates for multi-million pount contracts, tell directors within the company not to be so bloody stupid and generally stick my neck out to make sure the company adopted a technical solution which worked and gave us a competitive edge. Still think I could do all that without a brain? I may not be aggressive and competitive in the male sense, but I'm proud of the work I've done and am not afraid to tell my own company when something is substandard. Oh yeah - I'm also a trained swordswoman so I suggest you shut your trap now. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Can I sharpen the sword ? Or at least hold the axe ? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease :laugh: Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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If you thought about it, you would realise that Anna is the person best qualified to make the comparison, not you ;P The tigress is here :-D
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Hmm.. I thought I was a sexist, but it appears I'm not. I just like sex very much. What's the word for that? :rolleyes: -- In the land of the blind, be king! Some day, Dominion, some say prayers, now I say mine.
Male :laugh: The tigress is here :-D
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oh...ok then no worries :) with warning i'm probably allowed out ;) can we do another shady ram deal? Bryce --- Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitor
bryce wrote: oh...ok then no worries :) with warning i'm probably allowed out :) Good, then I won't have to rock up to your door, slap the missus and say 'Let my mate Bryce out for a drink'. ;P bryce wrote: can we do another shady ram deal? Definitely. Tell me what you want. I'll source it, give you a price and we'll go from there. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Right. Consider this. I'm a senior software developer, designer and systems architect within my company. In my previous company (I left for financial reasons in 1998) I was a team leader, dealt extensively with customers (both civil and military) and represented my team in technical meetings up to Board level. I've had to do selling price estimates for multi-million pount contracts, tell directors within the company not to be so bloody stupid and generally stick my neck out to make sure the company adopted a technical solution which worked and gave us a competitive edge. Still think I could do all that without a brain? I may not be aggressive and competitive in the male sense, but I'm proud of the work I've done and am not afraid to tell my own company when something is substandard. Oh yeah - I'm also a trained swordswoman so I suggest you shut your trap now. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Andy, you're wholly outside the context of the question, and comparing your desire (as a "woman") to enter a technical field is preposterous. Despite any physical alterations you may have made, you started out life as a male, and you therefore have male cerebral charactersitics. It is a proven scientific fact that *generally*, women are far less likely to enter a technical field than men because their brains simply aren't wired the same (either by choice or by natural selection). It isn't an insult, demeaning, and most certainly isn't sexist to point out that mother nature just works that way. The same thing applies in insurance rates. Ever wondered why females get lower rates? It's because they respond slower than men. Why is that? The neurons don't travel any slower in women than they do in men, but for women, they make a few stops along the way from visual stimulus to physical reaction. The femal brain generally analyes a situation a split second longer than the male brain. Sexist? No. Fact? Yes. The reason goes all the way back to caveman days when men were the hunters and needed to develope good reaction times to avoid being killed by what they considered their dinner. Women were generally not hunters because they lacked the strength to make the kill, so the male and female brain took slightly divergent developmental paths along the road of evolution. Even today, men still "look out" (ever wonder why guys always get up to look out the window when their dog barks at what appears to be nothing?) and generally have a stronger desire to "win at all costs" than women do. As soon as people stop worrying about whether or not women can do the same jobs that men do, and just accept the fact the men and women BOTH do what they excel at regardless of what it is, the sooner we'll all be a lot better off and talking about shit that really matters. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Andy, you're wholly outside the context of the question, and comparing your desire (as a "woman") to enter a technical field is preposterous. Despite any physical alterations you may have made, you started out life as a male, and you therefore have male cerebral charactersitics. It is a proven scientific fact that *generally*, women are far less likely to enter a technical field than men because their brains simply aren't wired the same (either by choice or by natural selection). It isn't an insult, demeaning, and most certainly isn't sexist to point out that mother nature just works that way. The same thing applies in insurance rates. Ever wondered why females get lower rates? It's because they respond slower than men. Why is that? The neurons don't travel any slower in women than they do in men, but for women, they make a few stops along the way from visual stimulus to physical reaction. The femal brain generally analyes a situation a split second longer than the male brain. Sexist? No. Fact? Yes. The reason goes all the way back to caveman days when men were the hunters and needed to develope good reaction times to avoid being killed by what they considered their dinner. Women were generally not hunters because they lacked the strength to make the kill, so the male and female brain took slightly divergent developmental paths along the road of evolution. Even today, men still "look out" (ever wonder why guys always get up to look out the window when their dog barks at what appears to be nothing?) and generally have a stronger desire to "win at all costs" than women do. As soon as people stop worrying about whether or not women can do the same jobs that men do, and just accept the fact the men and women BOTH do what they excel at regardless of what it is, the sooner we'll all be a lot better off and talking about shit that really matters. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John. If you can't call me by my own name just keep your trap shut. :mad: Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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John. If you can't call me by my own name just keep your trap shut. :mad: Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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Whatever, Andy. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
Piss off. :mad: I normally wish people all the best in their lives, but in your case I'll make an exception. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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Piss off. :mad: I normally wish people all the best in their lives, but in your case I'll make an exception. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I normally wish people all the best in their lives, but in your case I'll make an exception. Like that's gonna have any affect on anything I say or do. ... "Oh my gawd!! Andy Metcalf hasn't wished me the best in my life!! What will I do!? WHAAAAAT WIIIILLL I DOOOOOO!?!?" Gee... Nothing has changed... Just as I predicted... I am SO FUCKING RELIEVED! I was worried there for a second that your opinion of me was going to somehow change the outcome of my life. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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If you thought about it, you would realise that Anna is the person best qualified to make the comparison, not you ;P The tigress is here :-D
Sometimes, you make make me laugh out loud. LOLOL ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I normally wish people all the best in their lives, but in your case I'll make an exception. Like that's gonna have any affect on anything I say or do. ... "Oh my gawd!! Andy Metcalf hasn't wished me the best in my life!! What will I do!? WHAAAAAT WIIIILLL I DOOOOOO!?!?" Gee... Nothing has changed... Just as I predicted... I am SO FUCKING RELIEVED! I was worried there for a second that your opinion of me was going to somehow change the outcome of my life. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
I don't expect it to, and neither do I care what you think. Your own bigotry condemns you in other people's eyes. The only thing I care about is that I know there are other CP members who are afflicted by dysphoria and your comments could make it harder for them to confront their feelings and seek help. How would you feel if a member of your family was suffering from this and didn't dare confide in you because they knew what your reaction would be? For once, just think about it and forget all the macho crap. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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I think it is not about women have a brain to program or not. It is the question of whether women want to do it or not. I know most of my female friends or colleagues do not like to do programming. I think no one in the world born to be incapable in something unless for those who are misfortunate. Or else, everyone has equal chances of being someone great. Just that how much efforts (hard works) have been contributed that make the difference. A genious is great not because he/she is smart but he/she is hardworking.
Anthony_Yio wrote: It is the question of whether women want to do it or it. Yup! It has little to do with intelligence. It's all a matter of what motivates and excites you. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I don't expect it to, and neither do I care what you think. Your own bigotry condemns you in other people's eyes. The only thing I care about is that I know there are other CP members who are afflicted by dysphoria and your comments could make it harder for them to confront their feelings and seek help. How would you feel if a member of your family was suffering from this and didn't dare confide in you because they knew what your reaction would be? For once, just think about it and forget all the macho crap. Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Your own bigotry condemns you in other people's eyes. Ohhh NOOOOOO! That REALLY pains me to hear that some folks just plain don't like me. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: For once, just think about it and forget all the macho crap. What "macho crap"? You chose to chime in "as a woman" and I merely pointed out that your credentials (such as they are) are not only suspect, but they've been outright falsified. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Your own bigotry condemns you in other people's eyes. Ohhh NOOOOOO! That REALLY pains me to hear that some folks just plain don't like me. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: For once, just think about it and forget all the macho crap. What "macho crap"? You chose to chime in "as a woman" and I merely pointed out that your credentials (such as they are) are not only suspect, but they've been outright falsified. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
Unless you're a consultant psychiatrist, I don't think you're particularly qualified to comment on my credentials. All I know is when I tried to face down my feelings (transition was not what I wanted) my sessions with the psychs helped me to come to terms with the fact that I had no choice if I ever wanted to live a fulfilled life. I'm now doing that. Everywhere I go I'm accepted without question as myself. My life's pretty normal - so what that I have to have surgery in order to feel complete and content with myself? Why do you have a problem with that? You persist in deliberately trying to bait me - for example by calling me by my old name. I answer you because I have some hope that somehow I might help you to understand that people don't always fit within your apparently narrow experience. Is it my appearance, my past, my character or just the fact that I'm TS? Do you feel threatened by me or those like me? Why? Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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While men and women differ in their biological structure there is absolutely no difference in the structure and working of the brain. The brain is quite gender neutral, not just in human beings, but in the vast majority of animals (perhaps even all of them but my zoological awareness is not good enough to confirm that). So it would be quite ridiculous to claim that men are better programmers than women given the exact same circumstances. But again the key phrase here is “exact same circumstances”. Typically women are under more pressure to perform well for the following reasons (and there might be others I missed) :- (1) The majority of programmers are male and therefore women programmers are not very commonly found and bosses and project managers usually form a negative view point about women programmers (quite unfairly in my opinion) (2) There are quite a number of men who publicly say and probably believe too that women programmers are inferior. Thus there is always extra pressure on women coders because they have to keep proving that they are as good as any male coder. (3) Sometimes the fact of their being female gains greater importance than their programming ability. Given two women – one of them absolutely attractive, smart and intelligent (but just average coder) and the other a plain looking but very good coder – the majority of men would choose the smarter girl even if she is not as hot at coding (4) I am not very sure about this, but the monthly period cycle might have an adverse effect on women for 2-3 days (5) Women who get married and have kids (or have kids without marriage) will find it hard to program 10 hours a day during the last couple of months of their pregnancy and might end up missing something important like say the official launch of Everett (6) Women in their 40s might face menopausal problems which might affect their programming But then again I want to stress that “under the same circumstances” men and women coders will perform at equal output levels. If at all women programmers find it harder than men, then we only have the society to blame, and this is worse in the 3rd world countries than in the US or Europe. So westerners might find some of my comments very confusing Regards and thanks Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog
Women's brains are quite definitely wired up differently to men's brains. Different does not mean 'better or worse'. It just means different. Sure - women have biological issues that may affect their ability to work efficiently, but I would hazard a guess that men have as many, if not more problems with emotional stability. We get moody, angry, defensive, competitive (though I know Catherine and she is one of the few people more competitive than me ;)), we're easily distracted, we have multiple mid-life crisis - the list goes on. Women have issues, men have issues. Doesn't mean that one is a better programmer than the other. The issue is, though: Can women program? I think it's fairly obvious that yes, women can program. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Unless you're a consultant psychiatrist, I don't think you're particularly qualified to comment on my credentials. All I know is when I tried to face down my feelings (transition was not what I wanted) my sessions with the psychs helped me to come to terms with the fact that I had no choice if I ever wanted to live a fulfilled life. I'm now doing that. Everywhere I go I'm accepted without question as myself. My life's pretty normal - so what that I have to have surgery in order to feel complete and content with myself? Why do you have a problem with that? You persist in deliberately trying to bait me - for example by calling me by my old name. I answer you because I have some hope that somehow I might help you to understand that people don't always fit within your apparently narrow experience. Is it my appearance, my past, my character or just the fact that I'm TS? Do you feel threatened by me or those like me? Why? Anna :rose: Homepage | My life in tears "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Enough. If you two want to have a public flame war do it in the soapbox. Chris Maunder
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"Alive and ticking".. sounds nice, could make a song :-D
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
LOL cheers, Chris Maunder