"privatization"
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Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company? Shouldn't it be said to be "Governmentalized"? "You didn't build that!" says Barack Obama insinuating the Government did it... Let's ask the question "Who does the Government get it's money from?"
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company?
It isn't! It is called Municipalization[^]! This is Privatization[^]! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time -
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company?
It isn't! It is called Municipalization[^]! This is Privatization[^]! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the timeOops, I was reading the antonym. Thought it seemed odd.
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Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company? Shouldn't it be said to be "Governmentalized"? "You didn't build that!" says Barack Obama insinuating the Government did it... Let's ask the question "Who does the Government get it's money from?"
In the UK privitisation is the opposite. But our definition of "public" and "state" seem to be the opposite also.
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Oops, I was reading the antonym. Thought it seemed odd.
I think you need a job soon! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time -
In the UK privitisation is the opposite. But our definition of "public" and "state" seem to be the opposite also.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
But our definition of "public" and "state" seem to be the opposite also.
Not opposite so much as totally confused! The Government funds public spending in order to provide state schools whilst public schools are privately funded, but only in England, since Scottish public schools are state schools, for example. So although the press persists in calling the present Cabinet a bunch of public school boys it's actually inaccurate as Michael Gove attended a private school in Scotland.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company? Shouldn't it be said to be "Governmentalized"? "You didn't build that!" says Barack Obama insinuating the Government did it... Let's ask the question "Who does the Government get it's money from?"
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company? Shouldn't it be said to be "Governmentalized"?
The company is being "socialized". It is called "privatized" when the state sells it to some people and collects the money.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
"You didn't build that!" says Barack Obama insinuating the Government did it...
Yes, but that has little to do with things being dis-owned. Sorry to bring this to you, but it was not the corporations or the rich people that built the roads and the hospitals.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Let's ask the question "Who does the Government get it's money from?"
Not from the rich people, they don't pay taxes. They get it from the working class.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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ineedajobsoon wrote:
Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company? Shouldn't it be said to be "Governmentalized"?
The company is being "socialized". It is called "privatized" when the state sells it to some people and collects the money.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
"You didn't build that!" says Barack Obama insinuating the Government did it...
Yes, but that has little to do with things being dis-owned. Sorry to bring this to you, but it was not the corporations or the rich people that built the roads and the hospitals.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Let's ask the question "Who does the Government get it's money from?"
Not from the rich people, they don't pay taxes. They get it from the working class.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
RE: "...but it was not the corporations or the rich people that built the roads and the hospitals" Answer: You're almost right. Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US. Most roads and other "public works projects" are financed by governments., but again, where do those governments get their money? Answer: From businesses created by individuals. RE: "Not from the rich people, they don't pay taxes. They get it from the working class." - False Answer: People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US. Read: href="http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/24/high-income-americans-pay-most-income-taxes-but-enough-to-be-fair/ And: http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes Also, If you've ever been in business you know that an employer pays almost as much in Federal, SS and Medicare taxes on the employee's behalf as the employee does. Not to mention State, County, City and regulatory taxes and fees just for being in business. My favorite tax on business is "privilege" tax. You get taxed for the "privilege" of doing business in my State, City etc. "Never wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pig likes it." George Bernard Shaw
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RE: "...but it was not the corporations or the rich people that built the roads and the hospitals" Answer: You're almost right. Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US. Most roads and other "public works projects" are financed by governments., but again, where do those governments get their money? Answer: From businesses created by individuals. RE: "Not from the rich people, they don't pay taxes. They get it from the working class." - False Answer: People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US. Read: href="http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/24/high-income-americans-pay-most-income-taxes-but-enough-to-be-fair/ And: http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes Also, If you've ever been in business you know that an employer pays almost as much in Federal, SS and Medicare taxes on the employee's behalf as the employee does. Not to mention State, County, City and regulatory taxes and fees just for being in business. My favorite tax on business is "privilege" tax. You get taxed for the "privilege" of doing business in my State, City etc. "Never wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pig likes it." George Bernard Shaw
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US.
I'd expect the police-force to be next.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Answer: From businesses created by individuals.
No, by the working class.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US.
I doubt that number, and would like to point out that they do not "earn" this money single-handed.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
You get taxed for the "privilege" of doing business in my State, City etc.
Just as a worker is taxed for having an income. See, stuff like police has to be paid for, so *someone* is going to be paying :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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ineedajobsoon wrote:
Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US.
I'd expect the police-force to be next.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Answer: From businesses created by individuals.
No, by the working class.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US.
I doubt that number, and would like to point out that they do not "earn" this money single-handed.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
You get taxed for the "privilege" of doing business in my State, City etc.
Just as a worker is taxed for having an income. See, stuff like police has to be paid for, so *someone* is going to be paying :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US. Eddy Vluggen wrote:I doubt that number, and would like to point out that they do not "earn" this money single-handed. I provided two reputable sources of information backing up my statement and still you ignore the facts, so there's no point in going on with this discussion. "You can't argue with a sick mind" - Joe Walsh
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I think you need a job soon! :doh:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the timeI'm comfortably retired now, the handle is sarcasm from a long time ago. I was never out of a job unless I wanted to be. However, getting the definition wrong did reflect my coding style. I was/am not a very good coder, but I am very dedicated, persistent and completed my projects with functional, but rarely elegant, code. If you've never made a mistake, you've never done anything.
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People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US. Eddy Vluggen wrote:I doubt that number, and would like to point out that they do not "earn" this money single-handed. I provided two reputable sources of information backing up my statement and still you ignore the facts, so there's no point in going on with this discussion. "You can't argue with a sick mind" - Joe Walsh
ineedajobsoon wrote:
I provided two reputable sources of information backing up my statement
No. You did nothing of the kind. The figures you quote relate to Federal Personal Income Tax. That is nothing like the 'total taxes' in the US. You would, of course, expect the highest earners to be paying the most income tax in total (although there remain questions about whether it is proportionate). But in 2015 income and other personal taxes accounted for just 46.5% of US total taxes. Eddy is therefore quite right to question your outlandish claim.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US. Eddy Vluggen wrote:I doubt that number, and would like to point out that they do not "earn" this money single-handed. I provided two reputable sources of information backing up my statement and still you ignore the facts, so there's no point in going on with this discussion. "You can't argue with a sick mind" - Joe Walsh
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RE: "...but it was not the corporations or the rich people that built the roads and the hospitals" Answer: You're almost right. Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US. Most roads and other "public works projects" are financed by governments., but again, where do those governments get their money? Answer: From businesses created by individuals. RE: "Not from the rich people, they don't pay taxes. They get it from the working class." - False Answer: People that make 100K and above pay almost 80% of the total taxes in the US. Read: href="http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/24/high-income-americans-pay-most-income-taxes-but-enough-to-be-fair/ And: http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes Also, If you've ever been in business you know that an employer pays almost as much in Federal, SS and Medicare taxes on the employee's behalf as the employee does. Not to mention State, County, City and regulatory taxes and fees just for being in business. My favorite tax on business is "privilege" tax. You get taxed for the "privilege" of doing business in my State, City etc. "Never wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pig likes it." George Bernard Shaw
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Answer: You're almost right. Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US. Most roads and other "public works projects" are financed by governments., but again, where do those governments get their money? Answer: From businesses created by individuals.
That is no longer true. When the US was prospering about 33% of its tax revenue came from corporate tax. After the 80s it plummeted to single digit and coincidentally the US debt sky-rocketed. So as for the roads etc. around, no those businesses did not build it. They barely paid for the extra kick backs that the government hands corporations.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
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ineedajobsoon wrote:
Answer: You're almost right. Except that hospitals are overwhelmingly private in the US. Most roads and other "public works projects" are financed by governments., but again, where do those governments get their money? Answer: From businesses created by individuals.
That is no longer true. When the US was prospering about 33% of its tax revenue came from corporate tax. After the 80s it plummeted to single digit and coincidentally the US debt sky-rocketed. So as for the roads etc. around, no those businesses did not build it. They barely paid for the extra kick backs that the government hands corporations.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
N_tro_P wrote: When the US was prospering about 33% of its tax revenue came from corporate tax. Corporate tax is currently between 15% & 39%. The US corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. (see list at link below) That is one reason why US companies keep assets "offshore". Corporate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^] The National Debt has gone up under all but two US Presidents. One was a Democrat (if you think Clinton, you're wrong) one a Republican. Yes, some businesses hire tax lawyers to pay less "corporate" tax, (GE comes to mind) but they still pay boatloads of taxes for every employee on the payroll among other taxes. When Corporate (and other) taxes get too high, a country's manufactured goods become less competitive to other countries. Do you intentionally pay more taxes than you should? Not me, I pay as little as I am legally obliged to pay. As far a "kickbacks" go: That ax swings both ways. States give tax breaks to companies to create new jobs so the revenue base goes up... home sales, retail sales and such. Sometimes it works out for the State, sometimes not. Blame your politicians when they make bad decisions. Business always goes where it will get the best return on investment. Look at Apple, they make a 35% profit margin because they get their stuff made in China and other low labor cost countries. Tax "loopholes" created for business so that they pay lower or no tax. Blame your politicians. The tax laws (loopholes) are created by politicians to return the favor of political contributions. In many other professions, that would be called a bribe. Admittedly, sometimes they create incentives to help business get started and it works. The airline industry was heavily subsidized to get established. Fortunately the subsidy was later removed, competition ensued, and we all fly for a lot less money. Even at that, I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of "jiggery-pokery" going on. The airlines are still among the most regulated industries in the US. Which is worse, the one that offers the bribe or the one who accepts it?
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ineedajobsoon wrote:
I provided two reputable sources of information backing up my statement
No. You did nothing of the kind. The figures you quote relate to Federal Personal Income Tax. That is nothing like the 'total taxes' in the US. You would, of course, expect the highest earners to be paying the most income tax in total (although there remain questions about whether it is proportionate). But in 2015 income and other personal taxes accounted for just 46.5% of US total taxes. Eddy is therefore quite right to question your outlandish claim.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
The question was about how much the "rich" paid in taxes. When I said "total" it was in context of income taxes. Duh! You're mixing apples and oranges. Nice try though.
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N_tro_P wrote: When the US was prospering about 33% of its tax revenue came from corporate tax. Corporate tax is currently between 15% & 39%. The US corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. (see list at link below) That is one reason why US companies keep assets "offshore". Corporate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^] The National Debt has gone up under all but two US Presidents. One was a Democrat (if you think Clinton, you're wrong) one a Republican. Yes, some businesses hire tax lawyers to pay less "corporate" tax, (GE comes to mind) but they still pay boatloads of taxes for every employee on the payroll among other taxes. When Corporate (and other) taxes get too high, a country's manufactured goods become less competitive to other countries. Do you intentionally pay more taxes than you should? Not me, I pay as little as I am legally obliged to pay. As far a "kickbacks" go: That ax swings both ways. States give tax breaks to companies to create new jobs so the revenue base goes up... home sales, retail sales and such. Sometimes it works out for the State, sometimes not. Blame your politicians when they make bad decisions. Business always goes where it will get the best return on investment. Look at Apple, they make a 35% profit margin because they get their stuff made in China and other low labor cost countries. Tax "loopholes" created for business so that they pay lower or no tax. Blame your politicians. The tax laws (loopholes) are created by politicians to return the favor of political contributions. In many other professions, that would be called a bribe. Admittedly, sometimes they create incentives to help business get started and it works. The airline industry was heavily subsidized to get established. Fortunately the subsidy was later removed, competition ensued, and we all fly for a lot less money. Even at that, I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of "jiggery-pokery" going on. The airlines are still among the most regulated industries in the US. Which is worse, the one that offers the bribe or the one who accepts it?
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Corporate tax is currently between 15% & 39%. The US corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. (see list at link below) That is one reason why US companies keep assets "offshore".
On face fail, not in reality. GE made over a billion dollars last year and not only did not pay any taxes actually received government money... so yeah, there is that.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
The National Debt has gone up under all but two US Presidents. One was a Democrat (if you think Clinton, you're wrong) one a Republican.
I never said it did not go up. I said it skyrocketed after we reduced corporate tax. Do make a straw man argument here.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Yes, some businesses hire tax lawyers to pay less "corporate" tax, (GE comes to mind) but they still pay boatloads of taxes for every employee on the payroll among other taxes.
Yes, also known as income tax which is now the bulk of the governments funding. THAT was not the case, and THAT was what I said. NOT that the tax RATEs were XX before and are YY now. I said specific revenue streams and you have yet to prove that false. The data is out there and no I do not have a link. I am sure I could find it if I really cared that much. I don't, but have seen it many many times. In the 50s through 70s about 33% of the government funding came directly from corporate tax. That percent is now single digit. That has NOTHING to do with "The US having the highest corporate tax rates in the world" and everything to do with lobbying and corporatism. And Also maintains my point, that no they did not build that. They barely paid for their own building to be built in many cases (e.g. Walmart has used city taxes to get their stores built).
ineedajobsoon wrote:
When Corporate (and other) taxes get too high, a country's manufactured goods become less competitive to other countries. Do you intentionally pay more taxes than you should? Not me, I pay as little as I am legally obliged to pay.
You do realize that the high taxes benefit the big corporations right? The system is rigged such that it looks like they have to pay a butt load but in the end pay nothing leaving the smaller individual holding the bag. Back to my point, in the 50s through the 70s the government funding was propped up by 33% of corporate taxa
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Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company? Shouldn't it be said to be "Governmentalized"? "You didn't build that!" says Barack Obama insinuating the Government did it... Let's ask the question "Who does the Government get it's money from?"
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Why is it called "privatization" when the Government takes control of a private company?
Well - because it isn't, that why. Privatization was the darling of the Reagan administration. It took government entities and put them in the hands of the private sector. I was around for this. It was a friggin' fiasco. He, for example, de-federalized machinists at a Department of Energy facility. They, however, were essential to the running of the facility (a research station). Not to worry, they were hired to do the same job by the site's private contractor: at a big fat profit. Reagan/Privatization: cut the government payroll. Reality: Increased the cost of government and enriched EG&G (amongst others) Privatization is a big farce imposed to take successful government entities and let the private sector cherry pick the ones they want to take over, exploit, cut services, and increase costs to the public. The keep feeding believers that Cool-aid* and the keep drinking. * Currently, the cool aid is served by the Tea Party
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The question was about how much the "rich" paid in taxes. When I said "total" it was in context of income taxes. Duh! You're mixing apples and oranges. Nice try though.
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It wasn't what you thought or what you meant that counts but what you said. Duh, yourself.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
Sorry about the "duh". My apologies. But you clearly didn't read the thread to see what we were talking about.
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ineedajobsoon wrote:
Corporate tax is currently between 15% & 39%. The US corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. (see list at link below) That is one reason why US companies keep assets "offshore".
On face fail, not in reality. GE made over a billion dollars last year and not only did not pay any taxes actually received government money... so yeah, there is that.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
The National Debt has gone up under all but two US Presidents. One was a Democrat (if you think Clinton, you're wrong) one a Republican.
I never said it did not go up. I said it skyrocketed after we reduced corporate tax. Do make a straw man argument here.
ineedajobsoon wrote:
Yes, some businesses hire tax lawyers to pay less "corporate" tax, (GE comes to mind) but they still pay boatloads of taxes for every employee on the payroll among other taxes.
Yes, also known as income tax which is now the bulk of the governments funding. THAT was not the case, and THAT was what I said. NOT that the tax RATEs were XX before and are YY now. I said specific revenue streams and you have yet to prove that false. The data is out there and no I do not have a link. I am sure I could find it if I really cared that much. I don't, but have seen it many many times. In the 50s through 70s about 33% of the government funding came directly from corporate tax. That percent is now single digit. That has NOTHING to do with "The US having the highest corporate tax rates in the world" and everything to do with lobbying and corporatism. And Also maintains my point, that no they did not build that. They barely paid for their own building to be built in many cases (e.g. Walmart has used city taxes to get their stores built).
ineedajobsoon wrote:
When Corporate (and other) taxes get too high, a country's manufactured goods become less competitive to other countries. Do you intentionally pay more taxes than you should? Not me, I pay as little as I am legally obliged to pay.
You do realize that the high taxes benefit the big corporations right? The system is rigged such that it looks like they have to pay a butt load but in the end pay nothing leaving the smaller individual holding the bag. Back to my point, in the 50s through the 70s the government funding was propped up by 33% of corporate taxa
this is fun... your arguments are pretty good. Let's go through your re-re-re-rebuttals. N_tro_P wrote: On face fail, not in reality. GE made over a billion dollars... What I said is correct, but you want to state that every company in the US pays little or no taxes. Again, "The US corporate tax rate is the highest in the world". - True C'mon man! Think about it... why would companies keep a big chunk of their assets offshore if they could pay less taxes in the US? Do you really think they'd do that? N_tro_P wrote: I said it skyrocketed after we reduced corporate tax. It may have "skyrocketed" after the taxes were reduced, but I'd be surprised if that was the only reason. Convince me that is the only reason for the increase. The debt has been out of control for a long time. I doubt that it is all due to corporate tax rate. N_tro_P wrote: Yes, also known as income tax You missed my point completely. The employer portion is paid by the employer to the Federal Government. If you make $100 gross and pay $24 in withholding tax, your employer pays an additional, roughly equal amount to the IRS that you never see. (except for SS which gets added to your benefit contribution). Yes you could call it income tax, but it is not employee income tax, because the employees don't pay it, the company does. Yes it is not a "corporate" tax, but it is a tax that corporations pay. Taxation in the US is like a balloon animal. You squeeze one part and the other part gets bigger. Then all the politicians cry "We lowered taxes on blah-blah-blah" but fail to tell the whole story. I'm not sure who said: "A huge tax cut amounts to about $25, but a slight tax increase is $100" N_tro_P wrote: I said specific revenue streams I'm sorry. If you find some info as to what you're talking about, please send the link. N_tro_P wrote: And Also maintains my point, And mine as well. Remember the "Blame your politicians" line? Simplified for sure, but it remains true. You can blame either side, but to be fair it takes two to tango. N_tro_P wrote: You do realize that the high taxes benefit the big corporations right? That one goes right over my capitalist head. Is there a position paper somewhere that I can read about that? (I'm assuming you're talking about corporate taxes) N_tro_P wrote: in the 50s through the 70s the government funding True. Also consider this: During that time period industry in the US was the "big dog" in the world. After WWII, the rest of the industr