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  • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

    I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare! So anyway, if you're going to tell your boss at least make sure you don't tell him his plan sucks. Bring it so that his plan may have benefits IF it works out, and that you totally get his decision to do it this way, but (and don't use the word 'but') also tell him you have some concerns. Not easy, I know, but he'll be a lot more susceptible to your concerns if he thinks you're on his side.

    Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.

    Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra

    Regards, Sander

    D Offline
    D Offline
    Dave Kreskowiak
    wrote on last edited by
    #22

    Quote:

    I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare!

    Only if you wait long enough for them to do it by complete accident. The monkeys then won't know what the hell they did or how to improve upon it without further waiting for another fortuitous accident to happen.

    A guide to posting questions on CodeProject

    Click this: Asking questions is a skill. Seriously, do it.
    Dave Kreskowiak

    Sander RosselS 1 Reply Last reply
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    • D Dave Kreskowiak

      Quote:

      I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare!

      Only if you wait long enough for them to do it by complete accident. The monkeys then won't know what the hell they did or how to improve upon it without further waiting for another fortuitous accident to happen.

      A guide to posting questions on CodeProject

      Click this: Asking questions is a skill. Seriously, do it.
      Dave Kreskowiak

      Sander RosselS Offline
      Sander RosselS Offline
      Sander Rossel
      wrote on last edited by
      #23

      So it's kind of like programming? ;p

      Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.

      Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra

      Regards, Sander

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      • Kornfeld Eliyahu PeterK Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

        That's the exact problem...To give some background...We had in our company two groups (with a certain fading between them) one for the desktop development and one for the web...Now, with the new version we abandon the desktop and move all the functionality to the web...The leader of the desktop group try to ensure, he will not became obsolete (and this is foolish, as his knowledge of that part of system remains relevant) he picks subject that are relevant to the new technology stack and implements them (cache, authentication ans some) on his own, without knowing too much about the web (he got's his ideas from Google)...I do not want to dump him, so I have a big dilemma how to tell boos he has to stop it (as he not aware of the situation)...

        Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.

        L Offline
        L Offline
        Lost User
        wrote on last edited by
        #24

        Windows form can rob company of vital data, unscrupulos users can steal windows form application .exe pirates. Or worse, decompiles the .net pseudocode. But from a risk standing, web application allows all user data and usage recorded to detained the cloud (opens new revenue stream from leveraging recorded usage), and disables stealing the executable.

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        • L Lost User

          I'm self employed now, so take the following with a grain sf salt - it worked for me though. When I was dealing with HR, I made sure to growl a lot while talking, and stand in front of the only exit. There's a kind of sociopath that will only act with some consideration if they realize that their skeletal integrity is at risk, because they're the sort of people who would do that to others if given the chance. I don't beat up people at random, but you can bet that at least some sociopaths would if they thought they could get away with it - use it against them. Not to mean that all HR folks are sociopath, but you do get quite a few.

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #25

          FukkPhag1 wrote:

          I'm self employed now

          FukkPhag1 wrote:

          it worked for me though

          If the goal is fired and become self employed, then physically threatening HR works for you :~

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

            I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare! So anyway, if you're going to tell your boss at least make sure you don't tell him his plan sucks. Bring it so that his plan may have benefits IF it works out, and that you totally get his decision to do it this way, but (and don't use the word 'but') also tell him you have some concerns. Not easy, I know, but he'll be a lot more susceptible to your concerns if he thinks you're on his side.

            Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.

            Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra

            Regards, Sander

            M Offline
            M Offline
            maze3
            wrote on last edited by
            #26

            Sander Rossel wrote:

            I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare!

            - with infinite time, maybe. but they will produce 99.9..% bad versions, leaving you with a search algorithm problem to find the best.

            Sander RosselS 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M maze3

              Sander Rossel wrote:

              I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare!

              - with infinite time, maybe. but they will produce 99.9..% bad versions, leaving you with a search algorithm problem to find the best.

              Sander RosselS Offline
              Sander RosselS Offline
              Sander Rossel
              wrote on last edited by
              #27

              With infinite monkeys (and infinite typewriters) they'll conjure up every work of Shakespeare (or every work ever written) soon enough, like before the end of the month :-) Of course if you employ only one monkey it may take an infinity (then again, there's a change, small it may be, it'll write Hamlet on its first try).

              Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.

              Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra

              Regards, Sander

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              • P PIEBALDconsult

                Dunno, but my new boss seems to think that a system is "enterprisy" if it can be maintained by monkeys. Never mind that such a system will require more maintenance and have a higher TCO than the system I envision. It seems enterprises don't want developers who can think outside the box -- who'da thunk? Meanwhile, a system I wrote for a smaller business a while back has been running flawlesly 24/7 for more than ten years and the only call I've had about it since I stopped working for them in 2009 was three years ago and that was just a question about configuration. But I guess that's not "enterprisy". :shrug:

                P Offline
                P Offline
                patbob
                wrote on last edited by
                #28

                PIEBALDconsult wrote:

                It seems enterprises don't want developers who can think outside the box -- who'da thunk?

                No, they want predictability. Workers who think outside the box aren't predictable. Nevermind that what they've come up with might be better, if it wasn't predicted, then it is to be feared.

                We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

                P 1 Reply Last reply
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                • P patbob

                  PIEBALDconsult wrote:

                  It seems enterprises don't want developers who can think outside the box -- who'da thunk?

                  No, they want predictability. Workers who think outside the box aren't predictable. Nevermind that what they've come up with might be better, if it wasn't predicted, then it is to be feared.

                  We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  PIEBALDconsult
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #29

                  Yes, that's what I've begun seeing. The support staff all know how to use hammers, but not screwdrivers, and apparently they can't be trained to use screwdrivers, so I'm being discouraged from developing anything that requires a screwdriver. :sigh: Never mind that a solution that requires a screwdriver would (in theory) require fewer staff and therefore have a lower TCO. At least the deadline is still a couple months away...

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                  • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

                    I'm told that if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare! So anyway, if you're going to tell your boss at least make sure you don't tell him his plan sucks. Bring it so that his plan may have benefits IF it works out, and that you totally get his decision to do it this way, but (and don't use the word 'but') also tell him you have some concerns. Not easy, I know, but he'll be a lot more susceptible to your concerns if he thinks you're on his side.

                    Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.

                    Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra

                    Regards, Sander

                    K Offline
                    K Offline
                    KP Lee
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #30

                    Sander Rossel wrote:

                    if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare

                    Actually the quote is an infinite number of monkeys, so there will never be enough animals or typewriters. To type out all combinations of 10 characters limiting it to just the English alphabet, single case there are 141,167,095,653,376 ways the characters can be combined and that isn't close to the number of random words and spacing the monkeys need to produce. Shakespeare produced thousands of words. I hate to think of the number of editors you'd have to hire to find the works of Shakespeare in 2x89a7 54C3 9Y2!$#a%^$^ sets of monkey produced text and the education needed to know the correct spelling of old English words. That quote predates computers so you also need an infinite number of typewriters (an 11 character word) as well.

                    Sander RosselS 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Kornfeld Eliyahu PeterK Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

                      Sander Rossel wrote:

                      Bring it so that his plan may have benefits IF it works out, and that you totally get his decision to do it this way, but (and don't use the word 'but') also tell him you have some concerns. Not easy, I know, but he'll be a lot more susceptible to your concerns if he thinks you're on his side.

                      My parents told me that I should not tell lies... :-D

                      Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.

                      K Offline
                      K Offline
                      KP Lee
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #31

                      Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:

                      My parents told me that I should not tell lies

                      So, your parents don't have business sense. And in business, it ain't lying, its finding the correct turn of phrase to keep you employed.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • K KP Lee

                        Sander Rossel wrote:

                        if you pay enough monkeys they'll reproduce Shakespeare

                        Actually the quote is an infinite number of monkeys, so there will never be enough animals or typewriters. To type out all combinations of 10 characters limiting it to just the English alphabet, single case there are 141,167,095,653,376 ways the characters can be combined and that isn't close to the number of random words and spacing the monkeys need to produce. Shakespeare produced thousands of words. I hate to think of the number of editors you'd have to hire to find the works of Shakespeare in 2x89a7 54C3 9Y2!$#a%^$^ sets of monkey produced text and the education needed to know the correct spelling of old English words. That quote predates computers so you also need an infinite number of typewriters (an 11 character word) as well.

                        Sander RosselS Offline
                        Sander RosselS Offline
                        Sander Rossel
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #32

                        That's what you tell your manager who wants to hire those monkeys. He hires them anyway, and against all odds his monkey writes Shakespeare on the first try (the fun thing about chance is that it IS possible). He visits you in your cubicle and tells you "see, I told you it would work, it's a little thing I call experience." Hamlet will look like a cute princess children story after what you do to him next :D

                        Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.

                        Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra

                        Regards, Sander

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