Dark Energy
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It doesn't matter what 'shape' space/time takes in the slightest. The flat rubber sheet is, after all, a huge abstraction for the purposes of demonstrating the displacement theory of gravity. What 'dark energy' is supposed to explain is not expansion per se but the perceived acceleration of that expansion against all logic if you accept the standard cosmological model. Personally I can't help thinking that if you have to start making up stuff to fill in the gaps in your model than it's probably time to bin the model but then my living doesn't come from grants for research in theoretical physics! I did wonder to myself the other day if the explanation could simply be that as inflation increases, and the distance between masses increases along with it, gravitational drag is reduced, ie. the brakes are taken off, but then I figured if I'd thought of that there's probably a couple of thousand papers out there telling me why it's rubbish. Sometimes it's easier to sleep at night just knowing what you don't know.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
Yes, but it's all based on "observations" of a handful of supernovae seeming to cool faster than expected, and an assumption based on that that they're moving further away quicker than was previously assumed. Me, I reckon that since we don't know precisely the dynamics of supernovae, something else is happening either to make them cool faster than anticipated, or to block/absorb some of the heat, again making them appear to cool faster than anticipated. Something like an expanding cloud of dust that's recently been fused into higher-order atoms and molecules would likely have that kind of effect -- but what are the chances of something like that conveniently surrounding a supernova, eh? Nah, it's much more likely that some idiot needed to publish something radical quickly, or lose his research grant there's some mysterious "dark" thingummy that's at back of it all.
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But a ray cannot deviate from a straight line. Light however can bend due to gravity. Someone has been lying but the question is who.
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The truth is this: Fall of the angel of light resulted in the fall of light speed. The slowing light generated massive red shift. And was now moving slower to be affected by gravity. Dark matter/dark energy was an entity invented to make the naturalistic explanation fit. Occam's razor would removd it.
Damn those angels! They're always confusing things!
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So does light travel in a ray or does it not
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Pete Zahir wrote:
But a ray cannot deviate from a straight line.
Says who? If that's your a priori definition of ray then light doesn't travel in one. No contradiction. No lying.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
I can prove it does deviate with a simple mirror, or prism... :laugh:
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Yes it doesn't. Or no it does. It's definitely one of those.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
Both. Because of Quantum. :-D
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Human mind was created to enable us to survive on earth. To find food and mate for reproduction. Explaining a concept beyond 3 dimensional space as "curved" is still using 3 dimensional concept. God doesn't owe us a "how" answer in human words. Our brains are not ready.
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The earth/moon system is speeding around the sun at hundreds of thousands of km/h. The speed and precision required to reach the moon without the earth/moon system disappearing into the distance must have been remarkable.
Yes! It's exactly the same precision that's involved in putting a cup down on a table without breaking the table, the cup, or your hand! Isn't Physics wonderful!
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Those are definitely good points, but here comes the turtle. Spacetime has been confused, widely, because of the terms of "sheet" for spacetime. Although the analogy is good, simple and easier to imagine. The problem comes, when you are trying to depict how gravity works; straight-line in which direction, how much space bends, how is it that a space is always bent towards the centre? These are a few problems that arise in minds when we consider spacetime to be a sheet. I don't believe in dark matter, dark every and stuff similar to that. What I believe and can theorize is that "spacetime" is just the medium for "electromagnetic waves". We were lied when we were told, "light travels in vacuum". Physics books should be updated to include accurate descriptions over simplicit wrong explanations. Accordingly, the dark matter is nothing, but just another "level" of electromagnetic spectrum, which we have not yet discovered or come up against. We know Gammas are the strongest (in the means of their energy), who knows of the other way around? This is where Quantum jumps in and breaks the very simple common sense. They take us in worlds, where we cannot go, and try to explain our worldly problems in an inter-universal solution format. For example, instead of explaining Big bang, they are finding answers to Multiverse, instead of creating equipment sensitive enough to focus on a single electron particle, they are calling it a wave. :laugh: What a lame excuse; same as the one programmers make by saying, "It works on my machine!". Physics, needs abnormal people, who are able to imagine the world in an unusual way. Normal people are just making it worse. :-) Or... am I missing the joke symbol here? ;-)
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote:
Physics, needs abnormal people, who are able to imagine the world in an unusual way.
I have to disagree with that. IMO, Physics needs people who can see the bleeding obvious without getting bogged down by ideas that sort-of work but don't.
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Just thought-experimenting. If (as often happens) we represent 'spacetime' as a flat sheet (usually black rubber with white grid lines) and the distortion of spacetime by mass as a large ball sitting on the sheet, we can show the effect of gravity by rolling a smaller ball along the sheet, which will accelerate toward the large ball, and (ignoring friction) collide with or orbit. So far so good. In this model the flat sheet is suspended in 'nothing'. But, what if you 'zoomed out' and the sheet was actually curved? Imagine it is sitting on a massive sphere. If the sphere grows, so the 'universe' will expand. Indeed if the sheet itself were like the skin of a massive rubber ball, then this effect would be observed if the ball was inflated. So what we call 'dark energy' could simply be the inflation of whatever it is that 'supports' the universe. The turtles are sliding down the side of the shell. [^]
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Both. Because of Quantum. :-D
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Yes it can be quite quarky.
It's a charming effect!
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Just thought-experimenting. If (as often happens) we represent 'spacetime' as a flat sheet (usually black rubber with white grid lines) and the distortion of spacetime by mass as a large ball sitting on the sheet, we can show the effect of gravity by rolling a smaller ball along the sheet, which will accelerate toward the large ball, and (ignoring friction) collide with or orbit. So far so good. In this model the flat sheet is suspended in 'nothing'. But, what if you 'zoomed out' and the sheet was actually curved? Imagine it is sitting on a massive sphere. If the sphere grows, so the 'universe' will expand. Indeed if the sheet itself were like the skin of a massive rubber ball, then this effect would be observed if the ball was inflated. So what we call 'dark energy' could simply be the inflation of whatever it is that 'supports' the universe. The turtles are sliding down the side of the shell. [^]
PooperPig - Coming Soon
It seems that when these ideas are presented above, it is assumed that the ball(s) are attracted by a force below the rubber surface. I might say that it is in the center of that expanding rubber "balloon". Now here is an interesting clue. It has been discovered that not just the universe is expanding, the expansion is accelerating. The balls or mass-objects are not attracted to anything, it is the moving rubber surface that is accelerating toward the mass-objects(balls). If the expansion of the universe was just at a constant rate, there would be no gravity. It all runs on dark energy. It's just a thought. No, I didn't do the math.
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Just thought-experimenting. If (as often happens) we represent 'spacetime' as a flat sheet (usually black rubber with white grid lines) and the distortion of spacetime by mass as a large ball sitting on the sheet, we can show the effect of gravity by rolling a smaller ball along the sheet, which will accelerate toward the large ball, and (ignoring friction) collide with or orbit. So far so good. In this model the flat sheet is suspended in 'nothing'. But, what if you 'zoomed out' and the sheet was actually curved? Imagine it is sitting on a massive sphere. If the sphere grows, so the 'universe' will expand. Indeed if the sheet itself were like the skin of a massive rubber ball, then this effect would be observed if the ball was inflated. So what we call 'dark energy' could simply be the inflation of whatever it is that 'supports' the universe. The turtles are sliding down the side of the shell. [^]
PooperPig - Coming Soon
_Maxxx_ wrote:
we represent 'spacetime' as a flat sheet (usually black rubber with white grid lines)
That's just a projection onto a 2D surface so that the uneducated masses can go "oooh, I understand Einstein now" when they visit the science center. In reality, it is the three dimensional space we live in that is curved. It looks straight because there's so little curvature created by the planets or even the sun. But it'll look a lot different near a black hole! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
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It seems that when these ideas are presented above, it is assumed that the ball(s) are attracted by a force below the rubber surface. I might say that it is in the center of that expanding rubber "balloon". Now here is an interesting clue. It has been discovered that not just the universe is expanding, the expansion is accelerating. The balls or mass-objects are not attracted to anything, it is the moving rubber surface that is accelerating toward the mass-objects(balls). If the expansion of the universe was just at a constant rate, there would be no gravity. It all runs on dark energy. It's just a thought. No, I didn't do the math.
ronDW wrote:
it is assumed that the ball(s) are attracted by a force below the rubber surface
Nah, it's just an analogy that, although it uses three dimensions to demonstrate the movement of smaller objects, only demonstrates the effect in two-dimensions.
ronDW wrote:
It has been discovered that not just the universe is expanding, the expansion is accelerating
It really hasn't been "discovered"; it's been huge-leap-of-silly-supposition assumed, based on virtually zero data.
ronDW wrote:
If the expansion of the universe was just at a constant rate, there would be no gravity
This is true. Coulomb's Law (known only as the Inverse-square law, in the US, because Coulomb wasn't American) wouldn't have it otherwise.
ronDW wrote:
I didn't do the math
Nor did I, but Physics isn't about Maths; it just uses it to confirm observations. And these guys didn't do the Maths, either. They used statistical analysis -- and real mathematicians don't like statistical analyses.
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
we represent 'spacetime' as a flat sheet (usually black rubber with white grid lines)
That's just a projection onto a 2D surface so that the uneducated masses can go "oooh, I understand Einstein now" when they visit the science center. In reality, it is the three dimensional space we live in that is curved. It looks straight because there's so little curvature created by the planets or even the sun. But it'll look a lot different near a black hole! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
:thumbsup: Or even a long way away from a galaxy! Gravitational lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^] File:A Horseshoe Einstein Ring from Hubble.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^]
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But a ray cannot deviate from a straight line. Light however can bend due to gravity. Someone has been lying but the question is who.
Seriously? Where did they teach you this stuff? "Ray" is a descriptive word, used to describe what light looks like, to the human eye. It's not a "thing" in its own right, and it's not measurable (so it can't be used in any kind of calculation), even though it's used in grammatical structures that make it look determinant. i.e. "a pound of sugar" and "a ray of light" might look the same, and give the impression that "ray" is determinant, but it's not. It doesn't matter how big or small a ray of light is, it's still just "a ray of light". So you can't talk about rays as if they're separate from light. They are light -- or a non-unit-ish unit of light.
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I can prove it does deviate with a simple mirror, or prism... :laugh:
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There we have it! Everyone take heed, because CP's expert on deviation hath spake.
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There we have it! Everyone take heed, because CP's expert on deviation hath spake.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I'll...um...take that as a complement? :laugh:
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:thumbsup: Or even a long way away from a galaxy! Gravitational lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^] File:A Horseshoe Einstein Ring from Hubble.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^]
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Or even cooler; this article: Ray Tracing a Black Hole in C#[^]
