What is a bug?
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
What is a bug? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more!
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Marc Clifton wrote:
? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run?
I agree.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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In the old days, they were considered bugs. So there were 3 levels ; - compiler errors - runtime errors (program crashes) - logical/functional errors (program does not crash but gives incorrect output) Today most people don't consider compiler errors as bugs.
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Very interesting question you pose. Would you track compiler errors in a bug tracking database? I would hope that no one ever has. As soon as I say that then someone is going to say, "what about the people who are writing code compilers?" :laugh: So, since you wouldn't really consider tracking compiler errors as you do other errors they probably should be ignored since you can't build the software to get it running without resolving them. Analogy Time Also, let's see if there is an analogy.... ...suppose the robots that are building the cars in an assembly line malfunction and start painting the cars multiple colors because the car has a design element which sticks out that inadvertently flips a switch as it travels down the assembly line. Would that be a bug in the car? Probably not.
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
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Is Windows 7's constant attempting to install a differnet version of an OS without consent a bug? It's not expected the behaviour
Indeed. It is unwanted behavior that is actually built in. Many would call that malware, and I'd tend toward agreeing with them. I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
In a strongly typed language such as C#, a syntax bug will result in a compile time error so will be trapped before it reaches any potential customers. In a loosely typed language such as Javascript a syntax error will result in a run-time exception and so could arguably be defined as a bug as it could reach a potential customer if it has not been tested sufficiently. A bug is generally defined as any deviation from expected behaviour.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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Well, a basic business requirement would be that your code can compile into a binary/runnable format. :)
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Nish Nishant wrote:
Well, a basic business requirement would be that your code can compile into a binary/runnable format
That would not be a requirement of the business. That would be a technical requirement.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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Nish Nishant wrote:
Well, a basic business requirement would be that your code can compile into a binary/runnable format
That would not be a requirement of the business. That would be a technical requirement.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
Technical requirements and business requirements have some overlap.
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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Very interesting question you pose. Would you track compiler errors in a bug tracking database? I would hope that no one ever has. As soon as I say that then someone is going to say, "what about the people who are writing code compilers?" :laugh: So, since you wouldn't really consider tracking compiler errors as you do other errors they probably should be ignored since you can't build the software to get it running without resolving them. Analogy Time Also, let's see if there is an analogy.... ...suppose the robots that are building the cars in an assembly line malfunction and start painting the cars multiple colors because the car has a design element which sticks out that inadvertently flips a switch as it travels down the assembly line. Would that be a bug in the car? Probably not.
My book, Launch Your Android App, is available at Amazon.com.
If you are working on a C++ template library, you may need to track some bugs that may take a few days to fix :-)
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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In the old days, they were considered bugs. So there were 3 levels ; - compiler errors - runtime errors (program crashes) - logical/functional errors (program does not crash but gives incorrect output) Today most people don't consider compiler errors as bugs.
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
You forgot the Visual Studio doesn't (currently) work properly so we need a workaround bug :)
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
For some customers, a "bug" is when your software doesn't magically alter its behaviour to adapt to changes in the business requirements which they didn't bother to tell you about. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
I asked one of our customers... "A bug is when one choose to print a summary report and a summary report is printed"...
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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What is a bug? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more!
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
I chuckled.
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
I always thought of a bug as a flaw in the code implementation (logic) that does not meet the business requirements, as stated earlier by other members. If someone is writing shitty code, that is not a bug, that is just feces, and they probably need to go see a doctor. Just saying... :-D
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In the old days, they were considered bugs. So there were 3 levels ; - compiler errors - runtime errors (program crashes) - logical/functional errors (program does not crash but gives incorrect output) Today most people don't consider compiler errors as bugs.
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Here you touch one of the reasons why I dislike interpreters so much. A compiler can automatically detect syntax errors and also some smaller desasters waiting to happen, like uninitialized variables, missing return values or type mismatches. Since you have nothing to run until the compiler is satisfied, these bugs are easy to get rid of and will not be of any trouble anymore. An interpreter will not notice anything until it reaches a faulty line at runtime. The ridiculous amount of testing othat would be needed to get the security of a freshly compiled (and by no means perfect) program simply is not worth it.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Here you touch one of the reasons why I dislike interpreters so much. A compiler can automatically detect syntax errors and also some smaller desasters waiting to happen, like uninitialized variables, missing return values or type mismatches. Since you have nothing to run until the compiler is satisfied, these bugs are easy to get rid of and will not be of any trouble anymore. An interpreter will not notice anything until it reaches a faulty line at runtime. The ridiculous amount of testing othat would be needed to get the security of a freshly compiled (and by no means perfect) program simply is not worth it.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.CDP1802 wrote:
An interpreter will not notice anything until it reaches a faulty line at runtime. The ridiculous amount of testing othat would be needed to get the security of a freshly compiled (and by no means perfect) program simply is not worth it.
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Marc Clifton wrote:
there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long
Performance is a feature, not a bug. Remember that software development is driven by one's ability to only pick two out of fast, correct and cheap.
Marc Clifton wrote:
those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code
Typos.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run?
I would tend to agree with that assertion.
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
An extract from a letter Thomas Edison wrote in 1878 to Theodore Puskas
Quote:[^]
'Bugs' -- as such little faults and difficulties are called -- show themselves and months of intense watching, study and labor are requisite before commercial success or failure is certainly reached.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.2.2 Beta
I told my psychiatrist that I was hearing voices in my head. He said you don't have a psychiatrist! -
Technical requirements and business requirements have some overlap.
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Business requirements define "what" the system should do, while the technical requirements define "how" the system should met those requirements. And defining the binaries that are output is most definitely a technical requirement.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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I imagine we can all agree that a runtime error (something that blows up the program at runtime) or a logical error (doesn't blow up, but produces the wrong result) are bugs. Of course, there are other categories, like a "performance bug" -- produces the right result but takes too long. In any case... What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code. Would you go so far as to say that syntax errors are a subset of what we call bugs? Or do you think that something can only be called a bug if it manifests when the program is run? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
It's unintended behavior that's not a feature. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Marc Clifton wrote:
What about syntax errors -- those things that the compiler (or the IDE) detects before you even run the code, and in fact prevents you from running the code.
I would say no, that is not a bug. If it is then this is awesome code that simply has a bug that needs to be fixed.
var godObject = new God();
while(true)
{
godObject.DoWhatIsNeeded()
}Thats right, god objects don't even care about semi colons they are rocking it so much. THey just go go go and do what is needed. I got your whole system right here. Can I get paid now? But seriously, no syntax errors are not bugs. A bug is a manifestation (i.e. observation) of a failure in a running system. Yes, this means that if it is not observed it is not a bug. Welcome to quantum physics and the world of programming where one persons bug is another persons feature.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
var godObject = new God();
while(true)
{
godObject.DoWhatIsNeeded()
}This is a compilation error... until you go back it add the missing semi-colon.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
