Brexit
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We've been part of Europe for a very, very long time.
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Yes, as a leader when you owned a part of it, but never as a partner with the will to construct something together. This is a cultural thing, IMO, and I see UK culturally much more nearer US than Europe.
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Support for the EU was very high right after WW2 and have since dwindled quite a bit. One of the main ideas was to make the European economies dependent on each other, to reduce the risk of all-out war. Naturally, this had some side effects, mostly that some decisions are not made locally or even nationally. If Britan decided to leave, EU will have quite a bit to say about it, so you can 'vote' then.
The refugee "crisis" also, once the initial turmoil is over, presents a unique opportunity for European states to throw aside their cultural differences and create a more blended and inclusive culture, ending the root causes of both world wars for future generations.
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But that's the Trumpbox now.
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
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The refugee "crisis" also, once the initial turmoil is over, presents a unique opportunity for European states to throw aside their cultural differences and create a more blended and inclusive culture, ending the root causes of both world wars for future generations.
I get the impression that what people are afraid of is that people will not be integrated into the country where they live. I also find the European culture to be a little too broad concept. Clearly, there are large differences in the cultures of for instance Spain, England and the Nordic countries to name a few.
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I'd be happy that they leave. They have never been part of Europe anyway. Too bad we can't vote.
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We have been part of Europe for centuries. We just don't want to be part of, and pay to support, a corrupt dictatorship.
Don't worry. Whatever happens today, we'll still be ruled from the playing fields of Eton.
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Don't worry. Whatever happens today, we'll still be ruled from the playing fields of Eton.
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Yes, as a leader when you owned a part of it, but never as a partner with the will to construct something together. This is a cultural thing, IMO, and I see UK culturally much more nearer US than Europe.
You might want to check out your European history a bit there - the UK has a long history of working with various European countries. You might also want to ignore the media here in the UK - it's very biased on this.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
That's fine with me, we get the opportunity to vote them out after 5 years.
I'm not sure that we do. I live in a very safe constituency and as such my vote has no influence whatsoever. According to the Voter Power Index[^] the average UK voter has 6.67 times more influence than I do and the good people of Swansea West have 24.78 times more. Even the good people of Swansea West have no influence over the House of Lords. My vote for an MEP is, in a very real sense, the closest I ever get to having an electoral voice.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
That's fine with me, we get the opportunity to vote them out after 5 years.
I'm not sure that we do. I live in a very safe constituency and as such my vote has no influence whatsoever. According to the Voter Power Index[^] the average UK voter has 6.67 times more influence than I do and the good people of Swansea West have 24.78 times more. Even the good people of Swansea West have no influence over the House of Lords. My vote for an MEP is, in a very real sense, the closest I ever get to having an electoral voice.
PeejayAdams wrote:
my vote has no influence whatsoever.
I am in the same sort of constituency, but I still believe it's important to vote. I have seen a good few elections in my time where the status quo has been upset because people did use their vote. I don't vote in EU elections because the MEPs have no real power; everything is controlled by the Commission.
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Rage is making the classic mistake of thinking that Europe and the EU are the same thing here.
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I agree you are physically part of the continent, but, to me, that's about all you have in common with the rest of Europe. The French bashing seems to be some kind of national sport. To be really honest, the only UK people I have came across who were not on the "We-are-better-than-you-because-we-are-the-country-who-once-rules-the-world-and-saved-your-butt-in-WW2" attitude are the loungers in Code Project - probably because only open-minded people are able to be longer visible on an internet forum, without being crushed by the mass, so I assume they are not representative of the majority. Work relations with English people were awful at several places : to me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner, etc..., etc.... Several places, different people, same attitude, so I am not making this up. I have never, ever been treated in the 15 last years in Germany like this. Not even once. And again, if UK want to leave EU, and pushes it so far as to make an national enquiry about it, let it be. Retaining people who do not want to play by the rule anyway is no long-term solution to me, better cut the foul branch.
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PeejayAdams wrote:
my vote has no influence whatsoever.
I am in the same sort of constituency, but I still believe it's important to vote. I have seen a good few elections in my time where the status quo has been upset because people did use their vote. I don't vote in EU elections because the MEPs have no real power; everything is controlled by the Commission.
I vote in every election (apart from the one for the police thingy-bob where I really don't have a clue who's standing or exactly what the job is meant to involve). It doesn't alter anything, of course, but at least I usually wind up with that warm feeling that comes from voting against those in charge ...
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I agree you are physically part of the continent, but, to me, that's about all you have in common with the rest of Europe. The French bashing seems to be some kind of national sport. To be really honest, the only UK people I have came across who were not on the "We-are-better-than-you-because-we-are-the-country-who-once-rules-the-world-and-saved-your-butt-in-WW2" attitude are the loungers in Code Project - probably because only open-minded people are able to be longer visible on an internet forum, without being crushed by the mass, so I assume they are not representative of the majority. Work relations with English people were awful at several places : to me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner, etc..., etc.... Several places, different people, same attitude, so I am not making this up. I have never, ever been treated in the 15 last years in Germany like this. Not even once. And again, if UK want to leave EU, and pushes it so far as to make an national enquiry about it, let it be. Retaining people who do not want to play by the rule anyway is no long-term solution to me, better cut the foul branch.
Rage wrote:
relations with English people were awful at several places : to me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner
An experience no Englishman has ever seen the like of in France, of course! :doh:
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
That's fine with me, we get the opportunity to vote them out after 5 years.
I'm not sure that we do. I live in a very safe constituency and as such my vote has no influence whatsoever. According to the Voter Power Index[^] the average UK voter has 6.67 times more influence than I do and the good people of Swansea West have 24.78 times more. Even the good people of Swansea West have no influence over the House of Lords. My vote for an MEP is, in a very real sense, the closest I ever get to having an electoral voice.
PeejayAdams wrote:
My vote for an MEP is, in a very real sense, the closest I ever get to having an electoral voice.
Shame then that your MEP has least influence of all being effectively a rubber stamp for the decisions of unelected Commissioners, innit!
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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Rage wrote:
relations with English people were awful at several places : to me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner
An experience no Englishman has ever seen the like of in France, of course! :doh:
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
I never said our fellow citizens were better ! :rolleyes:
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PeejayAdams wrote:
My vote for an MEP is, in a very real sense, the closest I ever get to having an electoral voice.
Shame then that your MEP has least influence of all being effectively a rubber stamp for the decisions of unelected Commissioners, innit!
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
9082365 wrote:
Shame then that your MEP has least influence of all being effectively a rubber stamp for the decisions of unelected Commissioners, innit!
Does that not apply the whole world over? The top positions in all countries and federations are occupied by unelected individuals, it's weird how people perceive that to be a uniquely European thing. More importantly, why won't this accursed spellchecker recognise the word unelected? Is this part of a broader conspiracy?
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I agree you are physically part of the continent, but, to me, that's about all you have in common with the rest of Europe. The French bashing seems to be some kind of national sport. To be really honest, the only UK people I have came across who were not on the "We-are-better-than-you-because-we-are-the-country-who-once-rules-the-world-and-saved-your-butt-in-WW2" attitude are the loungers in Code Project - probably because only open-minded people are able to be longer visible on an internet forum, without being crushed by the mass, so I assume they are not representative of the majority. Work relations with English people were awful at several places : to me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner, etc..., etc.... Several places, different people, same attitude, so I am not making this up. I have never, ever been treated in the 15 last years in Germany like this. Not even once. And again, if UK want to leave EU, and pushes it so far as to make an national enquiry about it, let it be. Retaining people who do not want to play by the rule anyway is no long-term solution to me, better cut the foul branch.
Rage wrote:
o me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner, etc..., etc.... Several places, different people, same attitude, so I am not making this up.
And yet, when I worked in France and Luxembourg, I always took the time to try and learn the culture of the area I was in; it was one of my great pleasures. You speak in generalities when, as in all other cases, there are no absolutes - it all comes down to individuals. The thing is, what you're seeing right now is a xenophobia that has been whipped up by racists and then seized on by politicians aiming to serve their own ends. Add to this mix, a press that react to the way their owners want them to, rather than reporting the news they are trying to make the news. The reality, of course, is that there are many who are very happy to be members of the EU. We don't agree with everything that it does but, then again, we don't agree with everything our own governments do either. Does the EU need to reform? Of course it does. There are too many things that it still does wrong. There are also many things that it does right. This is why I hope to wake up tomorrow to find that we have voted to stay in.
This space for rent
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Will you take him off our hands if we vote "Remain"? Because I haven't voted yet, and... :-D
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Unfortunately, we also have our bunch of hysterical haters here :) I'm afraid we could barely afford another bonehead. On the other hand, I'd be glad to have a beer, or even several, with any of you if you were to travel near here. Edit: this offer remains valid whether you vote for or against; I usually don't do politics.
You always obtain more by being rather polite and armed than polite only.
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I agree you are physically part of the continent, but, to me, that's about all you have in common with the rest of Europe. The French bashing seems to be some kind of national sport. To be really honest, the only UK people I have came across who were not on the "We-are-better-than-you-because-we-are-the-country-who-once-rules-the-world-and-saved-your-butt-in-WW2" attitude are the loungers in Code Project - probably because only open-minded people are able to be longer visible on an internet forum, without being crushed by the mass, so I assume they are not representative of the majority. Work relations with English people were awful at several places : to me, they were a living incarnation of condescension : they know all better than you, they speak in their most perfect English so that you have absolutely no chance of understanding anything as a foreigner, etc..., etc.... Several places, different people, same attitude, so I am not making this up. I have never, ever been treated in the 15 last years in Germany like this. Not even once. And again, if UK want to leave EU, and pushes it so far as to make an national enquiry about it, let it be. Retaining people who do not want to play by the rule anyway is no long-term solution to me, better cut the foul branch.
Mais nous sommes mieux que vous! ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
