Why any less wild?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Also, our genetic predisposition to think/act this way spans across many more planes than just our concept of religion. yeah, i agree. religion is probably just one result of the interaction of more basic traits which all of us share. but it's an interaction over which we don't have much control; nearly everyone has a religion of some kind. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: nearly everyone has a religion of some kind Yup. I used to have a friend that said, "If I had to choose a God, I'd choose the sun as the giver of life." Well, at least many wouldn't deny his God's existence. :) Jeremy Falcon
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Paul Watson wrote: Frankly the idea of an all powerful God is wilder to me Well, that's what it comes down to though, doesn't it? If everyone thought like Paul Watson, then we would all be horribly sick of photography the world would be quite a different place. Thankfully (?), we do not, and so some of us are free to believe in God, gods, Fat Saints Delivering Gifts, and Fresh Cheese Curds as the Most Perfect Food. Consider the sum of human knowledge. Can any of us, with our finite intelligence and lifespans, ever hope to know and understand all that our fellow men know and understand? No. Thus we must trust others to some extent in order to make use of their knowledge and understanding. Who you trust has a lot to do with what you believe...
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
I certainly was not trying to denounce other peoples beliefs or say that mine are the one and only. In fact "my way of thinking" does not exclude God, while "their" way of thinking does exclude aliens/mutilated-cattle/etc. Or at least that is how they have implemented it, even if the original class in no way says aliens do not exist. I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. Shog9 wrote: Who you trust has a lot to do with what you believe... So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... ;) p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Yet! ;P Jeremy Falcon
"The War of the are-there-other-worlds" :-D If what Paul was saying was true, then there is no reason why there wouldn't be "ET Wars". The Trekkies vs the Star Wars Lovers would be an early one. Trekkie: "People on earth speak Klingon, they MUST exist" Star Wars Lover: "Well I've made my own C3PO army!" Sci-Fi Hater: "Didn't they find Klingons on Uranus?" *snigger*
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
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one more thing... ..have you read any Joseph Campbell. He's (or was) an expert in mythology, and tries to tie mythologies together, finding simliarties across cultural and geographical lines.. Good stuff Mythos[^] Power of Myth[^] BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
haven't read any. but his name comes up every time someone tries to discuss Star Wars. -c
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Who said anything about death ? :-D. To search for aliens you need a lot of equipment & stuff, to search for inner peace you need just some spare time :)
solon wrote: to search for inner peace you need just some spare time Yeah, that and a stable job so that I can pay my bills on time and eat when I'm hungry, works wonders for my inner peace. ;P Regards, Alvaro
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness. -- despair.com
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solon wrote: To search for aliens you need a lot of equipment & stuff, to search for inner peace you need just some spare time Yeah but you don't even need religion to find inner peace. Plus if it is inner peace then I am sure God would not want to disturb you while you are exploring it. And Mulder proved you don't need equipment to find aliens, they come to you. All you need is a death wish and a father who smokes lots of cigarettes... :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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From the very beginning of the Bible, Man has occupied a central position. God created all the animals and then created mankind to rule over them. Religion revolves around the story of mankind and it's relationship to God. So, when we discovered that humans were surprisingly apelike, it was immediately rejected by believers (because we're not animals! we're above them, created separately by God). Humans share 98.7% of our base-pairs with the chimpanzee. But, scientific facts are not to be elevated over the special revelation of God, they argue. And, Christianity readily embraced the Aristolean idea of a geo-centric solar system. Again, because of the belief that mankind was center-stage in this large story about mankind and god. For a long time after the Copernicus model, some people were still proposing alternet theories about planetary motion which involved the earth in the center of the solar system, and the planets and sun revolving in strange eliptical orbits which just happened to follow the same paths as a solar-centric model. To propose the idea of aliens means that human civilization is again removed from central stage in this big story of God and Humankind. (It should be noted that some Christians have turned the possiblity of aliens around and said, "why should God limit his creativity to one planet?" Thus, changing the debate about aliens from "the centrality of mankind and the religious story" into "God is greater than we imagine". If aliens are found, there is little doubt that this shift in thinking about the subject will occur.) ( Of course, the reality of evolution, the solar-centric solar system, and the existence of aliens doesn't necessarily invalidate the reality of the religious story - but it's just a little too close for comfort for many people, so it creates resistence. ) [Edit] A second factor is probably the fact that the perception of an idea is influenced by our perception of the believers in that idea. There are quite a few people running around talking about meeting aliens which seem rather nutty (have you noticed that rather odd jumpsuit that the Raelian leader wears?). The result is that the idea of aliens doesn't get much respect because we judge ideas based on the perception of people who believe those ideas. Religion, on the other hand, is believed by lots of normal people, so it doesn't suffer from the same problem. You can point out specific cults and religious ideas, though, that do suffer from the strangeness of their followers. [\Edit] ---
Good and very valid reply Brit. People try and denounce things that will remove them as the center of even just their own small world, never mind the universe. Brit wrote: "why should God limit his creativity to one planet?" And how we have, through the holy texts, only been told what we need to know. Wow, isn't it absolutely incredible how all these things can be countered so easily? I was just reading about Proust and one of his examples talks about the man who is late for everything. Yet instead of apologising and admitting he was wrong, he throws some spin to make it seem as if it was his choice to be late, for he is loftier than time. We are a very proud lot.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Shog9 wrote: That and cattle mutilation You had better start running then Shog... :-O My apologies, that was an incredibly low(ing) shot... *sigh* Someone anal probe me now before I carry on.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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haven't read any. but his name comes up every time someone tries to discuss Star Wars. -c
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Probably due to the epic story, and how a variety of myths are related, why people enjoy stories like that, etc. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Shog9 wrote: Who you trust has a lot to do with what you believe... Is that why conspiracy theorist are so screwed up? BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: Is that why conspiracy theorist are so screwed up? Donno, though i sorta think it might be the other way 'round - someone screwed them up & now they don't trust anyone.
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
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solon wrote: to search for inner peace you need just some spare time Yeah, that and a stable job so that I can pay my bills on time and eat when I'm hungry, works wonders for my inner peace. ;P Regards, Alvaro
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness. -- despair.com
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I don't know. If I hear someone else say that aliens built the great Egyptian pyramids, I am going to bust some heads. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: If I hear someone else say that aliens built the great Egyptian pyramids, I am going to bust some heads I know exactly what you mean; I mean really it has been proven with a shadow of a doubt that aliens built the pyramids, so all these nuts still ranting on about it as if they are the first... ;P I have a nickname for your: Tim "Cameo Appearance" Smith.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Paul Watson wrote: I don't need Linux or friends. Have you used the former at any point? We now know you havn't had the latter. Think of all the wonderfull cool people you meet at acne.org Linux.org
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
Jonny Newman wrote: We now know you havn't had the latter. Touche! Damn that left a mark Jonny, ouch. I have used Linux, got it on a box about 6 feet from me actually. Not really my favourite system though. Also I found I ended up with less friends during my Linux phase. Though polar bears did keep sniffing around my keyboard a lot.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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brianwelsch wrote: Is that why conspiracy theorist are so screwed up? Donno, though i sorta think it might be the other way 'round - someone screwed them up & now they don't trust anyone.
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
Chicken and egg, maybe. They don't trust anyone, so their beliefs are all out of whack, contridictory, unstable, etc.. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I am just curious here so go sprinkle that holy water on your geraniums; Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? None can be currently proved. All three have thousands of years of stories, myths, legends and records. Yet somehow a God fearing Christian or eastward praying Muslim thinks aliens are a total crock, as fanciful as Santa Claus. Frankly the idea of an all powerful God is wilder to me than the thought of other intelligent life eeking out and existance as we are somewhere in the universe. No super powers, no omniscience, no warp drive, they don't even have to have pointy ears. Just curious :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? Actually, it's not. Paul Watson wrote: Just curious :) No problem Paul, keep asking more questions if you have them. If you don't ask, how will you learn? :rolleyes:
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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Really? :omg: I guess I'll just have to go on one of those miracle diets. :-D Regards, Alvaro
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness. -- despair.com
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Jonny Newman wrote: We now know you havn't had the latter. Touche! Damn that left a mark Jonny, ouch. I have used Linux, got it on a box about 6 feet from me actually. Not really my favourite system though. Also I found I ended up with less friends during my Linux phase. Though polar bears did keep sniffing around my keyboard a lot.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Touche! Damn that left a mark Jonny, ouch. :jig: Well we know Dave W adores you. Paul Watson wrote: got it on a box about 6 feet from me actually. Mine is on the shelf that is hanging precariously above my head about 1 metre away. SuSE Personal 7.3. I tried Red Hat 6.something a while ago and found it boring. SuSE was a bit more XPesque with the new KDE it had. But in the end, Doing anything out of scope with the original 'out of the box' config proved difficult. Kernel modding and driver stuff. My idea of fun is not spending £100 on a new piece of kit, then spending the next three weeks writing a bloody driver for it. I may take more of an intrest when Mono comes out fully (thats the Linux .NET framework for those who don't know)
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
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Paul Watson wrote: Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? Actually, it's not. Paul Watson wrote: Just curious :) No problem Paul, keep asking more questions if you have them. If you don't ask, how will you learn? :rolleyes:
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: Actually, it's not. However many people will disagree with you, which is why I am asking. :) Rohit Sinha wrote: If you don't ask, how will you learn? By running into that yonder wall repeatedly. :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Really? :omg: I guess I'll just have to go on one of those miracle diets. :-D Regards, Alvaro
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness. -- despair.com
Alvaro Mendez wrote: I guess I'll just have to go on one of those miracle diets I have faith in you Alvaro.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Really? :omg: I guess I'll just have to go on one of those miracle diets. :-D Regards, Alvaro
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness. -- despair.com