Why any less wild?
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Paul Watson wrote: And if that is the only person I can claim to be my friend then I am a rich man indeed *sniff* Thats so sweet. He'd be flattered Paul Watson wrote: Never had to write/hunt for a driver in all my years of using Windows. Me neither :-) God ET bless the commerial software world :-D Paul Watson wrote: Actually, I lie. I tried to get a webcam which had "Windows 98 Only" written on it to work on Windows 2000. But that was me asking for it. To this day, I have NEVER managed to get my SB Live! Sound Card to work 100%. When installed on 2000 or XP with the old drivers. The remote control thingy worked, but none of the software would work. When I updataed the driver and software, the card works, bu the remote control doesn't. These are all Win2K compatible drivers. It really annoys me.
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
Jonny Newman wrote: I have NEVER managed to get my SB Live! Sound Card to work 100%. Same here. Creative makes some dandy products, but they only work at Comdex. "Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Chicken and egg, maybe. They don't trust anyone, so their beliefs are all out of whack, contridictory, unstable, etc.. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: their beliefs are all out of whack, contridictory, unstable Who's word are you taking for that, and why do you trust them?:suss: Are you sure they have your best interests at heart? "Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Paul Watson wrote: This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I don't know that there aren't aliens, and I don't think religion rules them out. I think it would be kinda cool if there were. Its man's interpretation of God's word that rules them out. In other words, men distort God to meet their needs (see Crusades, Islamic terrorism, wishy-washy Christians). Paul Watson wrote: I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. I *know* he exists, but to you he does not because you don't know him. Does this make sense? Let me explain... Here's how I enterpret why some people can believe and others cannot from a totally religious standpoint (ie non-scientific): To accept God, you must first be willing to accept him. When your heart is open to the possibility (when you truely seek the answer), God will make himself known to you (Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.). This may seem ridiculous or impossible for you, but perhaps you should try it; ask God if he exists. But do it sincerely and expect to get an answer. Paul Watson wrote: You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Been there, done that. I used to be very skeptical and accepted that God may not exist, but then I thought about it (a lot), and I pretty much did what I said above. Now, I believe wholeheartedly and the paradox no longer applies. Paul Watson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go. ?
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - GandhiHmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Just Curious Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain -
Hmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Just Curious Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark TwainNotorious SMC wrote: Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Yup, totally. I shall see you in Hell Notorious :) Notorious SMC wrote: Hmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Even if the Christian or Muslim or Whatever God revealed themselves to me. Showed to me that beyond a shadow of a doubt that He exists, I most likely would not accept him as my God. I would say "Fine, there is a God(s), you exist, there is Heaven and Hell and what not. But I choose not to follow your path, I choose not to become one of your followers." Mainly because I disagree with some important points that they demand (e.g. going to hell without having ever been offered a choice, that is not a good God.) Christians seem to believe that we heathens will just suddenly change to their path when God reveals himself. When McDonalds came to town I was faced with it's mightiness, yet I chose not to follow or use it, some people can't get their heads around that.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Paul Watson wrote: This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I don't know that there aren't aliens, and I don't think religion rules them out. I think it would be kinda cool if there were. Its man's interpretation of God's word that rules them out. In other words, men distort God to meet their needs (see Crusades, Islamic terrorism, wishy-washy Christians). Paul Watson wrote: I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. I *know* he exists, but to you he does not because you don't know him. Does this make sense? Let me explain... Here's how I enterpret why some people can believe and others cannot from a totally religious standpoint (ie non-scientific): To accept God, you must first be willing to accept him. When your heart is open to the possibility (when you truely seek the answer), God will make himself known to you (Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.). This may seem ridiculous or impossible for you, but perhaps you should try it; ask God if he exists. But do it sincerely and expect to get an answer. Paul Watson wrote: You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Been there, done that. I used to be very skeptical and accepted that God may not exist, but then I thought about it (a lot), and I pretty much did what I said above. Now, I believe wholeheartedly and the paradox no longer applies. Paul Watson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go. ?
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - GandhiJason Henderson wrote: But do it sincerely and expect to get an answer. Here is the rub; If the Christian God revealed himself to me, I would not accept him as my leader. I would naturally accept that he was real, that there is a Heaven and Hell, that Jesus was his son etc. etc. I have no problem with accepting those things as true. I would be happy to chat to God, ask him some questions, let him show me some tricks to life. But I still would not become a Christian, I would not become a follower, I would not accept Jesus into my heart. I have some major disagreements with the Christian faith. Disagreements that would make me feel it wrong to become a Christian. I have asked. I have asked God to show himself. I was very sincere at all times when asking and I still am. I would really, really love for God to come down and show himself to me. So maybe that is why God has not revealed himself to me; He only reveals himself to people wanting him to enter their hearts as well as their minds, not just people who want to see if he is real or not, to enter their minds only. Jason Henderson wrote: Paul Watson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go. ? Your sig was quite apt for what I was saying earlier about hypocrisy. I was trying to get religious folk to accept XYZ based on open mindedness, but I was close minded to the existance of God. So I realised I was also a hypocrite. I then re-assesed that and became more open minded, e.g being the change I wish to see in others.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Notorious SMC wrote: Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Yup, totally. I shall see you in Hell Notorious :) Notorious SMC wrote: Hmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Even if the Christian or Muslim or Whatever God revealed themselves to me. Showed to me that beyond a shadow of a doubt that He exists, I most likely would not accept him as my God. I would say "Fine, there is a God(s), you exist, there is Heaven and Hell and what not. But I choose not to follow your path, I choose not to become one of your followers." Mainly because I disagree with some important points that they demand (e.g. going to hell without having ever been offered a choice, that is not a good God.) Christians seem to believe that we heathens will just suddenly change to their path when God reveals himself. When McDonalds came to town I was faced with it's mightiness, yet I chose not to follow or use it, some people can't get their heads around that.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Yup, totally. I shall see you in Hell Notorious Aw, crap! Well, at least we can keep each other company :) And the thing is, all these gods want more or less the same thing, be good to each other, peace on earth and all that. What I don't get is that "If you believe anyone other than me then you go to hell" part. Seems a bit insecure. Okay, I realised what I said could probably get me labeled as the anti-christ ;P but that's more or less how I fell. I don't bother them, and they don't bother me. Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain -
Paul Watson wrote: Yup, totally. I shall see you in Hell Notorious Aw, crap! Well, at least we can keep each other company :) And the thing is, all these gods want more or less the same thing, be good to each other, peace on earth and all that. What I don't get is that "If you believe anyone other than me then you go to hell" part. Seems a bit insecure. Okay, I realised what I said could probably get me labeled as the anti-christ ;P but that's more or less how I fell. I don't bother them, and they don't bother me. Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark TwainNotorious SMC wrote: And the thing is, all these gods want more or less the same thing, be good to each other, peace on earth and all that. What I don't get is that "If you believe anyone other than me then you go to hell" part. Seems a bit insecure. AFAIK there are some popular organised religions which do allow people of other religions to enter heaven. They say that life is a mountain and there are many paths to the top. So long as a good life was led, then heaven will let you into it's gates. That I like. Pity Christianity is so FUBAR about that though.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Notorious SMC wrote: And the thing is, all these gods want more or less the same thing, be good to each other, peace on earth and all that. What I don't get is that "If you believe anyone other than me then you go to hell" part. Seems a bit insecure. AFAIK there are some popular organised religions which do allow people of other religions to enter heaven. They say that life is a mountain and there are many paths to the top. So long as a good life was led, then heaven will let you into it's gates. That I like. Pity Christianity is so FUBAR about that though.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Pity Christianity is so FUBAR about that though. LOL, that's gonna get you real popular with the Christian Community. BTW, I think aliens are probably out there, they're just staying the hell away from us. I mean there's no reason for them to come here, no natural resources, people here are shitty, Bush. Yep, them aliens are pretty smart ;P Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain -
brianwelsch wrote: Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? Yeah, bless his little cotton socks. :rolleyes: brianwelsch wrote: Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. God, so many... umm... Fifth Elephant was hilarious, Thief of Time also. I really cannot say which to read first except start at #1 and read through the series. There are references and un-saids in later books which are filled in by earlier books, so it helps starting at Discworlds birth. I just read them as they come out, fantastic stuff.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic are the first two, with Rincewind in. I really liked the Witches series, [Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg do seem like wonderful female role models :laugh:] and had read them first. It would make sense to read the Witches (or any other series) in order as there are references to the previous ones that you'd miss if you hadn't already read them. Not that you'd miss the plot, but maybe the humour. clickety[^] Debbie
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Hmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Just Curious Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark TwainIf you want to know what I and other Christians believe, then yes even nice guys go to hell. If you reject God, then you aren't living according to his authority, you're under someone else's authority. Rejecting God = rejecting his salvation. But I'm not making the decision. This is another difficult thing for people to understand, but we are not saved by what we do while here on Earth, we are saved by God's grace only. God decides. So I can't tell you who is going to hell or not, I must leave that up to God.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
Notorious SMC wrote: Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Yup, totally. I shall see you in Hell Notorious :) Notorious SMC wrote: Hmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Even if the Christian or Muslim or Whatever God revealed themselves to me. Showed to me that beyond a shadow of a doubt that He exists, I most likely would not accept him as my God. I would say "Fine, there is a God(s), you exist, there is Heaven and Hell and what not. But I choose not to follow your path, I choose not to become one of your followers." Mainly because I disagree with some important points that they demand (e.g. going to hell without having ever been offered a choice, that is not a good God.) Christians seem to believe that we heathens will just suddenly change to their path when God reveals himself. When McDonalds came to town I was faced with it's mightiness, yet I chose not to follow or use it, some people can't get their heads around that.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: But I choose not to follow your path, I choose not to become one of your followers." Mainly because I disagree with some important points that they demand (e.g. going to hell without having ever been offered a choice, that is not a good God.) There is something called the Law of Conscience, which the apostle Paul describes in one of his letters. It basically states that those who have not heard the Word (not offered a choice) and still know in their heart what is right and they know there is a God are judged by the Law of Conscience. If, however, you do hear the Word (Christ's ministry) then you have basically been given the choice and you are judged accordingly.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
Notorious SMC wrote: And the thing is, all these gods want more or less the same thing, be good to each other, peace on earth and all that. What I don't get is that "If you believe anyone other than me then you go to hell" part. Seems a bit insecure. AFAIK there are some popular organised religions which do allow people of other religions to enter heaven. They say that life is a mountain and there are many paths to the top. So long as a good life was led, then heaven will let you into it's gates. That I like. Pity Christianity is so FUBAR about that though.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: That I like. Pity Christianity is so FUBAR about that though. :confused: You're judging Christianity without truely knowing it. That's like me judging you and telling you you're going to Hell. I can't do that.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
Jason Henderson wrote: But do it sincerely and expect to get an answer. Here is the rub; If the Christian God revealed himself to me, I would not accept him as my leader. I would naturally accept that he was real, that there is a Heaven and Hell, that Jesus was his son etc. etc. I have no problem with accepting those things as true. I would be happy to chat to God, ask him some questions, let him show me some tricks to life. But I still would not become a Christian, I would not become a follower, I would not accept Jesus into my heart. I have some major disagreements with the Christian faith. Disagreements that would make me feel it wrong to become a Christian. I have asked. I have asked God to show himself. I was very sincere at all times when asking and I still am. I would really, really love for God to come down and show himself to me. So maybe that is why God has not revealed himself to me; He only reveals himself to people wanting him to enter their hearts as well as their minds, not just people who want to see if he is real or not, to enter their minds only. Jason Henderson wrote: Paul Watson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go. ? Your sig was quite apt for what I was saying earlier about hypocrisy. I was trying to get religious folk to accept XYZ based on open mindedness, but I was close minded to the existance of God. So I realised I was also a hypocrite. I then re-assesed that and became more open minded, e.g being the change I wish to see in others.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: He only reveals himself to people wanting him to enter their hearts as well as their minds, not just people who want to see if he is real or not, to enter their minds only. Well yes, that's the whole idea. God is like a Father to each of us. He loves and cares for us, but he also wants our respect and he wants us to accept him completely. If you had a kid, and that kid disobeyed you, you would still love him. But if that child disrespected you and ran away, you would gladly accept him back, but if he never comes back then that was his choice and he must face the consequences. Paul Watson wrote: Your sig was quite apt for what I was saying earlier about hypocrisy. I was trying to get religious folk to accept XYZ based on open mindedness, but I was close minded to the existance of God. So I realised I was also a hypocrite. I then re-assesed that and became more open minded, e.g being the change I wish to see in others. Ah, I see. I hope you don't think I can't see things from a non-religious perspective, because I've been a skeptic and I know how it is. I've just chosen a different path (the right path ;) ).
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
Notorious SMC wrote: Does that mean you'd go to hell even though you're one hell of guy and newver did anything wrong? Yup, totally. I shall see you in Hell Notorious :) Notorious SMC wrote: Hmmmm.. how about believing that there are gods, but choosing not to accept them? Even if the Christian or Muslim or Whatever God revealed themselves to me. Showed to me that beyond a shadow of a doubt that He exists, I most likely would not accept him as my God. I would say "Fine, there is a God(s), you exist, there is Heaven and Hell and what not. But I choose not to follow your path, I choose not to become one of your followers." Mainly because I disagree with some important points that they demand (e.g. going to hell without having ever been offered a choice, that is not a good God.) Christians seem to believe that we heathens will just suddenly change to their path when God reveals himself. When McDonalds came to town I was faced with it's mightiness, yet I chose not to follow or use it, some people can't get their heads around that.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: I disagree with some important points that they demand (e.g. going to hell without having ever been offered a choice, that is not a good God.) Just a bit of information about what the Bible says about that can be found in the Book of Romans chapter 1 (and following). Check it out here Romans 1:16-2:16[^] "Yeah, and I invented the spellchecker" - fellow inventor Dan Quayle on hearing that Al Gore invented the Internet.
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If you want to know what I and other Christians believe, then yes even nice guys go to hell. If you reject God, then you aren't living according to his authority, you're under someone else's authority. Rejecting God = rejecting his salvation. But I'm not making the decision. This is another difficult thing for people to understand, but we are not saved by what we do while here on Earth, we are saved by God's grace only. God decides. So I can't tell you who is going to hell or not, I must leave that up to God.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - GandhiWith all this restrictions, I wonder how many people actually end up in Heaven? I mean, it seems to me that only people who are perfect go to Heaven. Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain -
With all this restrictions, I wonder how many people actually end up in Heaven? I mean, it seems to me that only people who are perfect go to Heaven. Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark TwainNotorious SMC wrote: With all this restrictions, I wonder how many people actually end up in Heaven? I mean, it seems to me that only people who are perfect go to Heaven. What restrictions? I didn't name a single one. I can still do whatever I want, but the point is, should I? Do I want to do bad things and not the good? Not a single person on Earth is perfect, yet if we are not perfect, we can't be with God (God abhors sin). Only one man was ever perfect and he was the Son of God. He lived as an example for us all, and he died so that we can be made perfect before God. When he died, he did so as a sacrifice for everyone's sins, and if you believe in him and what he said, your sins will be washed away by his blood and you can be perfect before God. If you believe in him, you will want to do what he commands. His commands may seem like restrictions, but are they really? Is it a restriction to be meek? How about to be humble? What about giving up what you want so you can help someone else? Some people may think these are restrictions, but I see them as blessings. If more people were like this (even if they weren't christians) the world would be a much nicer place to live. Hope that explains Christian thinking a little better. One of the main reasons people don't want anything to do with Christianity is because they don't really understand it. Most of that fault lies with Christians.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi -
Notorious SMC wrote: With all this restrictions, I wonder how many people actually end up in Heaven? I mean, it seems to me that only people who are perfect go to Heaven. What restrictions? I didn't name a single one. I can still do whatever I want, but the point is, should I? Do I want to do bad things and not the good? Not a single person on Earth is perfect, yet if we are not perfect, we can't be with God (God abhors sin). Only one man was ever perfect and he was the Son of God. He lived as an example for us all, and he died so that we can be made perfect before God. When he died, he did so as a sacrifice for everyone's sins, and if you believe in him and what he said, your sins will be washed away by his blood and you can be perfect before God. If you believe in him, you will want to do what he commands. His commands may seem like restrictions, but are they really? Is it a restriction to be meek? How about to be humble? What about giving up what you want so you can help someone else? Some people may think these are restrictions, but I see them as blessings. If more people were like this (even if they weren't christians) the world would be a much nicer place to live. Hope that explains Christian thinking a little better. One of the main reasons people don't want anything to do with Christianity is because they don't really understand it. Most of that fault lies with Christians.
Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - GandhiOkay, restriction probably wasn't the right word. But I get your point. I guess that's what separates those who are religious and those who aren't. I just can't accept God, or any other God at this point in my life,but maybe I will later in life, who knows. ::shrugs:: Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain