10 Best Evidence for Creation and a Young Earth
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No, it's not a guess. That's just silly talk. It is a rational, logical explanation of observed fact which merely lacks a complete proof usually by dint of inaccessibility of repeatable experimental evidence. It may be flawed, it may contain errors, but it is nowhere near as flimsy as a guess. Admittedly anyone who tells you that the theory of evolution by natural selection is a complete, indisputable, factual and historically accurate account of the creation and development of life on Earth is either deluded to the point of hubris or a charlatan. But anyone who claims that the account in Genesis represents a reasonable alternative is just an idiot not least because it as plain as the nose on your face that the writers and redactors of that account never intended it to be one. The Genesis accounts (for there are quite clearly at least two, entirely different) are guesses, not theories, and until the madness of the late 19th Century rejection of Darwin nobody really ever thought otherwise.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
9082365 wrote:
It is a rational, logical explanation of observed fact which merely lacks a complete proof usually by dint of inaccessibility of repeatable experimental evidence. It may be flawed, it may contain errors, but it is nowhere near as flimsy as a guess.
Like I said, an educated guess. ;)
9082365 wrote:
it as plain as the nose on your face that the writers and redactors of that account never intended it to be one.
I've never heard that one before. I'd like to hear more.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote:
I'll prove to you that God exists as soon as you can prove to me that you love your wife and your children.
That's fair, since they're all fictional beings. :laugh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
since they're all fictional beings.
Dang, that explains a lot about you. ;P OK. Prove to me that you love your mom. Stop dodging the point.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Falsifiable theories are nothing to base your eternal security on. There are people screaming and flopping around in hell right now who fell for fables and theories instead of the truth of Christ. And they won't get out, ever. God is going to torture them in there FOREVER.
PradeepGaggandeep wrote:
There are people screaming and flopping around in hell right now who fell for fables and theories instead of the truth of Christ. And they won't get out, ever. God is going to torture them in there FOREVER.
God! I hope that's meant ironically.
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Richard Deeming wrote:
since they're all fictional beings.
Dang, that explains a lot about you. ;P OK. Prove to me that you love your mom. Stop dodging the point.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
OK. Prove to me that you love your mom.
OK: give me a team of neuroscientists, a fully-equipped lab, and $1B/year. I'm sure we'll be able to identify the reactions in the brain associated with that emotion after a few decades. ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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RyanDev wrote:
OK. Prove to me that you love your mom.
OK: give me a team of neuroscientists, a fully-equipped lab, and $1B/year. I'm sure we'll be able to identify the reactions in the brain associated with that emotion after a few decades. ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
I'm sure we'll be able to identify the reactions in the brain associated with that emotion
That still would not be proof you love your mom. Since you keep dodging it, let me explain something that as you grow older you'll learn as well. You constantly live your life by faith. You put a key in the ignition having faith that your car will start. You do not have knowledge that it will start, it is a belief. You also believe or have faith that your employer will pay you if you work. Finding out that god exists is done through the same process. He will not appear to you and say "Hey, I am god." And if he did, you wouldn't believe it anyway. However, once you exercise your faith the proof of God is then given to you. The same way that exercising your faith by turning the car key turns into knowledge when your car does start, you can know as a proven fact that God is real and that He loves you. But you have to do work. It will not happen without you putting forth the effort. Therefore, it is your choice and no one can make you believe. Faith leads to knowledge but faith is an action word. You have to do something.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote:
Nope.
OK then - where's your proof?
RyanDev wrote:
no religion that I am familiar with fits that description
So you're saying that religions do adapt to new facts? That, in fact, they are a "flawed method", rather than a "proven truth"? :rolleyes:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
So you're saying that religions do adapt to new facts? That, in fact, they are a "flawed method", rather than a "proven truth"?
Well, they should be. If we theologians could only get fundamentalist Christians to read the Bible as the record of an experimental faith which hypothesises understandings of God only to have them fail in the harsh light of experience and history then refines and even totally reworks them which it is rather than as the cold, dead, immutable 'Word of God', we'd be laughing! Human beings sadly have little capacity to deal with a living, dynamic God, so much of Christianity has simply returned the risen Christ to the tomb where he's least dangerous by reinstating the very Pharisaism that he overturned. God is indeed dead in so many Christian churches and you don't have to look far to see who's holding the bloody knife!
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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Richard Deeming wrote:
I'm sure we'll be able to identify the reactions in the brain associated with that emotion
That still would not be proof you love your mom. Since you keep dodging it, let me explain something that as you grow older you'll learn as well. You constantly live your life by faith. You put a key in the ignition having faith that your car will start. You do not have knowledge that it will start, it is a belief. You also believe or have faith that your employer will pay you if you work. Finding out that god exists is done through the same process. He will not appear to you and say "Hey, I am god." And if he did, you wouldn't believe it anyway. However, once you exercise your faith the proof of God is then given to you. The same way that exercising your faith by turning the car key turns into knowledge when your car does start, you can know as a proven fact that God is real and that He loves you. But you have to do work. It will not happen without you putting forth the effort. Therefore, it is your choice and no one can make you believe. Faith leads to knowledge but faith is an action word. You have to do something.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I have "faith" that my car will probably start based on years of evidence. I also know that sometimes it won't start, and I'll have to call someone who knows what they're doing to come and fix it. I have "faith" that my employer will pay me based on years of evidence. I also know that it's possible that there will come a time when he can't, and I'll have to look for another job. I have yet to see an explanation of how to "exercise your faith" where the first step isn't "believe that [insert chosen deity here] exists". Your belief that your deity exists is not proof that he exists; my belief that he doesn't exist is not proof that he doesn't. :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Richard Deeming wrote:
I'm sure we'll be able to identify the reactions in the brain associated with that emotion
That still would not be proof you love your mom. Since you keep dodging it, let me explain something that as you grow older you'll learn as well. You constantly live your life by faith. You put a key in the ignition having faith that your car will start. You do not have knowledge that it will start, it is a belief. You also believe or have faith that your employer will pay you if you work. Finding out that god exists is done through the same process. He will not appear to you and say "Hey, I am god." And if he did, you wouldn't believe it anyway. However, once you exercise your faith the proof of God is then given to you. The same way that exercising your faith by turning the car key turns into knowledge when your car does start, you can know as a proven fact that God is real and that He loves you. But you have to do work. It will not happen without you putting forth the effort. Therefore, it is your choice and no one can make you believe. Faith leads to knowledge but faith is an action word. You have to do something.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
All well and good but totally off the point. Faith in God is not incompatible with the acceptance of scientific theories nor is the belief that the Bible is
Quote:
useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
a requirement to give it priority over actual observed fact when it comes to history or science. Faith requires a fool's wisdom, not an idiot's intelligence. It should enrich knowledge not deny it. Faith is not in anyway the antithesis of science unless you elect to make it so and the very second that you do so you relegate faith to just another gnosis and embrace a heresy. No religion which rejects science as a legitimate enterprise and normal expression of God's intentions for man's intelligence can survive long other than as a parody and ultimately a travesty of the faith it espouses increasingly extremist as it it folds ever more destructively in on itself. That is as evident in Westboro as it is in IS.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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Notice, you ignored this part "when used according to prescription." ;)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
If "selective quotation" is good enough for the Sky Pixies Fanciers Club, it's good enough for me! :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I have "faith" that my car will probably start based on years of evidence. I also know that sometimes it won't start, and I'll have to call someone who knows what they're doing to come and fix it. I have "faith" that my employer will pay me based on years of evidence. I also know that it's possible that there will come a time when he can't, and I'll have to look for another job. I have yet to see an explanation of how to "exercise your faith" where the first step isn't "believe that [insert chosen deity here] exists". Your belief that your deity exists is not proof that he exists; my belief that he doesn't exist is not proof that he doesn't. :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
I have "faith" that my car will probably start based on years of evidence. I also know that sometimes it won't start, and I'll have to call someone who knows what they're doing to come and fix it. I have "faith" that my employer will pay me based on years of evidence. I also know that it's possible that there will come a time when he can't, and I'll have to look for another job.
All correct. And if God behaved the same way you could not have complete faith, in other words, if the process ever failed you then you would lose faith. Just like after having a dead car battery you are probably a little hesitant the next times you start your car even after getting a new battery. God could not be god if he varied or was inconsistent.
Richard Deeming wrote:
I have yet to see an explanation of how to "exercise your faith" where the first step isn't "believe that [insert chosen deity here] exists".
Almost. You need to have a desire to know if he exists or not. A sincere desire.
Richard Deeming wrote:
Your belief that your deity exists is not proof that he exists;
I know that and have never claimed it was. It is my proof that he exists. And as I already explained, knowing that God exists comes from your choices and is a personal knowledge, just like you can't prove you love your mom, but yet you know that you do.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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All well and good but totally off the point. Faith in God is not incompatible with the acceptance of scientific theories nor is the belief that the Bible is
Quote:
useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
a requirement to give it priority over actual observed fact when it comes to history or science. Faith requires a fool's wisdom, not an idiot's intelligence. It should enrich knowledge not deny it. Faith is not in anyway the antithesis of science unless you elect to make it so and the very second that you do so you relegate faith to just another gnosis and embrace a heresy. No religion which rejects science as a legitimate enterprise and normal expression of God's intentions for man's intelligence can survive long other than as a parody and ultimately a travesty of the faith it espouses increasingly extremist as it it folds ever more destructively in on itself. That is as evident in Westboro as it is in IS.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
9082365 wrote:
but totally off the point.
Not at all. The point I was discussing with Richard was how to know that God exists. I know it is not the OP topic, but nevertheless, it was the topic we were discussing.
9082365 wrote:
It should enrich knowledge not deny it.
Faith based on something that is not true will fail.
9082365 wrote:
No religion which rejects science as a legitimate enterprise and normal expression of God's intentions for man's intelligence can survive long
I agree. Einstein was close when he said, "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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If "selective quotation" is good enough for the Sky Pixies Fanciers Club, it's good enough for me! :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Richard Deeming wrote:
I have "faith" that my car will probably start based on years of evidence. I also know that sometimes it won't start, and I'll have to call someone who knows what they're doing to come and fix it. I have "faith" that my employer will pay me based on years of evidence. I also know that it's possible that there will come a time when he can't, and I'll have to look for another job.
All correct. And if God behaved the same way you could not have complete faith, in other words, if the process ever failed you then you would lose faith. Just like after having a dead car battery you are probably a little hesitant the next times you start your car even after getting a new battery. God could not be god if he varied or was inconsistent.
Richard Deeming wrote:
I have yet to see an explanation of how to "exercise your faith" where the first step isn't "believe that [insert chosen deity here] exists".
Almost. You need to have a desire to know if he exists or not. A sincere desire.
Richard Deeming wrote:
Your belief that your deity exists is not proof that he exists;
I know that and have never claimed it was. It is my proof that he exists. And as I already explained, knowing that God exists comes from your choices and is a personal knowledge, just like you can't prove you love your mom, but yet you know that you do.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
It is my proof that he exists.
I see. I think we're using the word "proof" in different ways. And that's fine. Just like the word "theory", it can have different meanings in different contexts. :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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RyanDev wrote:
It is my proof that he exists.
I see. I think we're using the word "proof" in different ways. And that's fine. Just like the word "theory", it can have different meanings in different contexts. :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
I think we're using the word "proof" in different ways.
Not really. Again, prove to me that you love your mom. You can't, and you never will be able to. Does that mean you don't love her?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Sky Pixies Fanciers Club
I see. You have no sincere intent other than to mock. Good day.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
You came to the Soapbox for rational debate? :omg:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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You came to the Soapbox for rational debate? :omg:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Richard Deeming wrote:
I think we're using the word "proof" in different ways.
Not really. Again, prove to me that you love your mom. You can't, and you never will be able to. Does that mean you don't love her?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
If you want to argue logic, prove to me that you exist, and aren't just a figment of my imagination. :-D What I meant was, I took your earlier statement to mean "proven" in the scientific sense. Which was not the meaning you intended.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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If you want to argue logic, prove to me that you exist, and aren't just a figment of my imagination. :-D What I meant was, I took your earlier statement to mean "proven" in the scientific sense. Which was not the meaning you intended.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
aren't just a figment of my imagination.
Since you love to hate me I'd say you have serious daddy issues then if you are imagining me. ;P ;)
Richard Deeming wrote:
"proven" in the scientific sense. Which was not the meaning you intended.
Au contraire. List to me the steps of the scientific theory (in your own words, not a link) and I'll show you it can be proven scientifically.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Richard Deeming wrote:
aren't just a figment of my imagination.
Since you love to hate me I'd say you have serious daddy issues then if you are imagining me. ;P ;)
Richard Deeming wrote:
"proven" in the scientific sense. Which was not the meaning you intended.
Au contraire. List to me the steps of the scientific theory (in your own words, not a link) and I'll show you it can be proven scientifically.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
List to me the steps of the scientific theory
In general terms, a theory should:
- Make accurate and falsifiable predictions;
- Be supported by multiple independent sources of evidence;
- Be consistent with existing experimental results;
- Be at least as accurate as any existing theory;
- Make the fewest assumptions amongst competing hypotheses;
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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RyanDev wrote:
List to me the steps of the scientific theory
In general terms, a theory should:
- Make accurate and falsifiable predictions;
- Be supported by multiple independent sources of evidence;
- Be consistent with existing experimental results;
- Be at least as accurate as any existing theory;
- Make the fewest assumptions amongst competing hypotheses;
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
I think you made a lot of this up.
Richard Deeming wrote:
- Be consistent with existing experimental results;
Now you've proven this is a bad method. It can't accept something drastically different that what is known. Here you go: Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[^] Testing is a main part of it. And as I said, each and every person can test whether or not God exists. In other words, it follows the scientific method just fine. The only difference is you have to do some legwork, you can't just accept other scientists telling you to believe it. Which I find hilarious because you claim religious people are told what to believe and yet we are the only ones saying "find out for yourself." :laugh: :doh:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
