A common language to divide us
-
Yes, I'm similar in that my Brumminess is in inverse proportion to my sobriety. I also find that when I'm elsewhere, my accent tends to fade quite rapidly. When I used to work away from home, I remember a hotel receptionist saying "It's ever so odd, you come down every Monday sounding all Brummie and by Friday you sound proper!"
My brother and I, having grown up in various bits of the country don't have regional accents. However, my brother has spent his entire married life in cannock and his kids are pure yam-yam. My dad was born and raised in Derbyshire but has spent most of his adult life elsewhere. He doesn't have much of an accent now, but as soon as he crosses the border back home it becomes thick again.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
-
I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service. I believe that in current British English usage that is correct however I believe the reason for its being is that the screen was created by Brits and the service by Europeans.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Pre 1840 ish 'ensure' and 'enquire' didnt exist. They still dont in US English, which of course split off before the Brits decided to add them to differentiate subtle meaning. And dont be too surprised if some Brits today get them confused. Enquire is to 'ask'. Inquire is to 'look into' something. Hence a govt inquiry for example, looking into some issue.
-
As an Englishman, I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version. I often hear younger devs talking about dee-em-zees rather than dee-em-zeds these days and the practice of sticking a zed where an ess should be (organize etc.) seems to be growing.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version
Odd that you fear that, US english is just an older form of English that split off (and stayed fossilised as off shoots tend to) in the 17th century. By the way, Enquire and Ensure were invented in the UK around 1840 ish. If you read Trolope for example you will see him use them the old, and American, way.
-
Pre 1840 ish 'ensure' and 'enquire' didnt exist. They still dont in US English, which of course split off before the Brits decided to add them to differentiate subtle meaning. And dont be too surprised if some Brits today get them confused. Enquire is to 'ask'. Inquire is to 'look into' something. Hence a govt inquiry for example, looking into some issue.
-
PeejayAdams wrote:
I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version
Odd that you fear that, US english is just an older form of English that split off (and stayed fossilised as off shoots tend to) in the 17th century. By the way, Enquire and Ensure were invented in the UK around 1840 ish. If you read Trolope for example you will see him use them the old, and American, way.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Odd that you fear that, US english is just an older form of English that split off (and stayed fossilised as off shoots tend to) in the 17th century.
To a large extent, yes, it was a natural branching though I suspect that Webster created a few more differences than would have occurred naturally. I have nothing whatsoever against American English and I'm a huge fan of American literature. I'd also be the first to point out that American English gets many things right that British English gets wrong. I think that much of the reason that I don't want to see the two merge back into one is that I enjoy the differences.
-
Which is why I said I think it is correct, albeit by chance. You enquire in the screen and the service inquires in database.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Yes, it sounds like the terms are used correctly. (Its a bit pedantic though, English, dont you find? I mean, it really is a bastardised language, the least pure of any, I often think it hasnt got the right to take itself so seriously. :) )
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Odd that you fear that, US english is just an older form of English that split off (and stayed fossilised as off shoots tend to) in the 17th century.
To a large extent, yes, it was a natural branching though I suspect that Webster created a few more differences than would have occurred naturally. I have nothing whatsoever against American English and I'm a huge fan of American literature. I'd also be the first to point out that American English gets many things right that British English gets wrong. I think that much of the reason that I don't want to see the two merge back into one is that I enjoy the differences.
Do you think there really is that much difference? Beyond the colloquialisms (rubber for durex, fanny for bum, spunk for spirit, always makes me cringe, those last two) and the interesting affect French has had on it (butte, the pronounciation of bouy, and the really odd habit Americans have of using 'that' to join sentences that just doesnt work in English (but does with 'que' in French)) they are identical IMO.
-
I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service. I believe that in current British English usage that is correct however I believe the reason for its being is that the screen was created by Brits and the service by Europeans.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
The company I used to work for had a guideline that said all documents must be written in British English. It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English. The paragraph describing this guideline contained at least 3 words written in US English :omg:
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
-
Do you think there really is that much difference? Beyond the colloquialisms (rubber for durex, fanny for bum, spunk for spirit, always makes me cringe, those last two) and the interesting affect French has had on it (butte, the pronounciation of bouy, and the really odd habit Americans have of using 'that' to join sentences that just doesnt work in English (but does with 'que' in French)) they are identical IMO.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
I'm American and that still sounds wrong!
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
-
My (Dutch) team decided to standardize on British English. That didn't work out so well for our Organization entity. The Initialisation function is fine though :) I admit I find it difficult sometimes. I know color and colour, but who uses center and centre? I guess I could use some counseling and counselling so I may cast a better judgment and judgement. I my defense and defence, English isn't my first language so you can't expect me to memorize and memorise all the differences. So don't criticize and critizise, because for a non-native English speaker I'm pretty skillful and skilful. Of course, I always welcome dialog and dialogue on the subject :)
Read my (free) ebook Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly. Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles here on CodeProject.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Brilliant.
-
The company I used to work for had a guideline that said all documents must be written in British English. It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English. The paragraph describing this guideline contained at least 3 words written in US English :omg:
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
Now that made me chuckle.
-
Yes, it sounds like the terms are used correctly. (Its a bit pedantic though, English, dont you find? I mean, it really is a bastardised language, the least pure of any, I often think it hasnt got the right to take itself so seriously. :) )
I'm sure you're sure that you cannot ensure if I'm insured.
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
PeejayAdams wrote:
"Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!)
Yeah, I think we have that one right... If you're referring to just the city/state, it's singular. The team names themselves are usually plural. For instance, "The Mets were my favorite team", or "New York was my fav--" Err, ok, there are two New York teams, so can't just call them "New York"...
PeejayAdams wrote:
I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
PeejayAdams wrote:
"Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!)
Yeah, I think we have that one right... If you're referring to just the city/state, it's singular. The team names themselves are usually plural. For instance, "The Mets were my favorite team", or "New York was my fav--" Err, ok, there are two New York teams, so can't just call them "New York"...
PeejayAdams wrote:
I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
It's used frequently by Ed McBain and I'm sure that I've come across it in a fair few novels by other American writers - wasn't there a Hemmingway story about a "well-lighted room" or something similar? Is it something that used to be common but has fallen out of use?
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do you think there really is that much difference?
A fair old bit, I think. "Villa are my favourite football team" vs. "Villa is my favorite soccer team" - that's a difference of spelling, terminology and grammar in half a dozen words (and I'd have to concede that the Americans are right to use "is" where we use "are" so win on grammar at least!) Most of it goes unnoticed but the one that always sticks out like a sore thumb when I read an American book is lighted in place of lit as in "he lighted a cigarette." That always sounds plain wrong to me.
PeejayAdams wrote:
"he lighted a cigarette."
Yes, the strong to weak verb change thats taken place in English.Its just old English the Americans use, so like weaved and wove, dived and dove, perhaps we should just accept lighted and lit side by side each other? :) Another old word is the use of 'gotten', whereas in the UK it only exists as a fossil in a phrase (phrases tend to keep their original words) as in 'ill gotten gains'. When I left the UK many years ago and learnt French and to some extent Dutch, and hence the origin of much of English, I stopped being so pedantic about its usage, and am far more accepting of its foibles and oddities, and even its miss-usage. It realy is such a bastardised language that I dont see why we shouldn't continue to do so! :) --edit-- Correction, its weak to strong change thats happened in general.
-
I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service. I believe that in current British English usage that is correct however I believe the reason for its being is that the screen was created by Brits and the service by Europeans.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
chriselst wrote:
I've just noticed that where I work has an Item Enquiry screen that calls an Item Inquiry service.
Not really. You can use "enquiry" in place of "inquiry" (to broaden the scope to include the run-up to the inquiry), but not the other way around. Hah! The US (or should I say U/S?) spell-checker in this browser doesn't even have the word "enquiry"!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Um, that sounds like plain old bad writing to me. We use "lit", not "lighted". I mean I guess "lighted" is valid, but yeah, it sounds stupid.
It's used frequently by Ed McBain and I'm sure that I've come across it in a fair few novels by other American writers - wasn't there a Hemmingway story about a "well-lighted room" or something similar? Is it something that used to be common but has fallen out of use?
Could be... I sure don't use it in my novels... At least I don't think I did... If I did, I blame grammar check.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
The company I used to work for had a guideline that said all documents must be written in British English. It was so harshly phrased you thought you'd burn in hell if you used US English. The paragraph describing this guideline contained at least 3 words written in US English :omg:
Kitty at my foot and I waAAAant to touch it...
There's actually no such thing as "British English". There's English (calling it English English would just be stoopid), Scots English (several variants, few of which are even remotely understandable), Welsh English (has a lot more "baa" sounds), and NI English (sounds fine, if you've downed enough Liffey water). They're all too different to class them under a single dialect.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
As an Englishman, I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version. I often hear younger devs talking about dee-em-zees rather than dee-em-zeds these days and the practice of sticking a zed where an ess should be (organize etc.) seems to be growing.
PeejayAdams wrote:
I hate to say it, but I do think that the language is gradually drifting towards the American version.
Never, never, Never, NEVER, NEVER will I use "gotten". We dropped that out of English because it sounds and looks silly, and God knows we English don't stand for sounding and looking silly!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
