Technical Project Manager
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You are probably asking the wrong group here, there may be a few PMs but no many that haunt the Lounge. I, like Marc, am an old developer and my advice would be the same RUN! Caveat, this advice comes from a FAILED manager. Your statement that you consider yourself and artist who enjoys creating puts you firmly in the developer bucket, as a manger your creativity will be stifled and that can lead to mental constipation. Having said that at 37 you have to explore the opportunity and I wish you all the luck with the adventure. A good manager is invaluable, pity they are so few and far between.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I totally agree that CP isn't manager-centric, but this is kinda my online crew. My virtual peeps. It's just my go-to for tech questions, including this one. And while I do agree with stifling creativity in this role, I know the guys here will want me to code some. So I hope I don't lose that side, but I gotta give this a go man ya know. And thanks for your wishes. I'll try not to suck. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
managerial
You wrote so much just to tell me you are our boss now. That's a good fist step in your new role. ;P
Mobile Apps - Sound Meter | Color Analyzer | SMBC | Football Doodles
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I totally agree that CP isn't manager-centric, but this is kinda my online crew. My virtual peeps. It's just my go-to for tech questions, including this one. And while I do agree with stifling creativity in this role, I know the guys here will want me to code some. So I hope I don't lose that side, but I gotta give this a go man ya know. And thanks for your wishes. I'll try not to suck. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
but I gotta give this a go man ya know
Absolutely! And if you can keep a modicum of coding your sanity may not suffer too much. One reason it may work is you already know your team and presumably have their respect.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
project manager
Remember when you used to think of them as idiots and used to rant while having beer with mates? You are out of that group now. Good luck finding new beer mates.
"You'd have to be a floating database guru clad in a white toga and ghandi level of sereneness to fix this goddamn clusterfuck.", BruceN[^]
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Not so much advice but just to recant my own experiences. I too was once a Development Manager. I didn't directly apply for the role, it was gradually assigned to me as I was the most senior developer in my team at the time (this was around 5 years ago). So I gradually evolved from a Senior Software Developer into a Software Manager. And I didn't like it one bit. My passion is developing software. It's what gets me excited and puts a bounce in my step in the mornings. Slowly over time the mind crushing tedium of the role got to me. I spent less and less time doing what I loved and more and more time spent in meetings, putting together the annual budget plans, drafting the development strategy and roadmap, representing and defending the team to people who's sole objective was to blame my team for why their own team had failed. I learnt a lot about the management side of software, but that's about it. I didn't particularly enjoy my tenure as a manager, and I left after a couple of years to get back into developing software. Life is short. Spend it doing something you love.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
A few years back I wrote The Zigzag Career[^] in respoonse to Udi's article[^]. In rereading both I think the bottom-line advise still holds true: make this type of decision with your eyes open and treat it like a real career change. Personally, I've been back and forth between manager and IC roles but have always gravitated back to the technical side. That's just me though. I didn't even find the "architecture" role that appealing. I like to build things. Try it. You may (or may not) like it. Either way you'll end up better off (IMO).
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Marc Clifton wrote:
ok, no really. The #1 rule is that you, as a manager, do not dictate, you facilitate.
I've always read that a good manager is more of a servant, and I suppose that can be true. I'll keep this in mind.
Marc Clifton wrote:
The idea is, when you facilitate them getting their job done, they will start caring about how they can facilitate you getting your job done.
Makes total sense. I reckon it'll be like a relationship. The more you put into the other person they more they'll want to put into you.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Oh, and rule #2 - never take credit for anything. Always give credit to your team
Makes sense. Oh, and btw Marc... JavaScript. I'm so evil.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
The more you put into the other person they more they'll want to put into you.
I didn't read that X|
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Whatever Marc said is very true.. Never try to hog the limelight and never dictate ! And if I may add: Never try to micro-manage - give them space to maneuver. don't give solution immediately (specially to technical problem) even if you have one unless extremely critical time-crunch. Give pointer and let them fail and learn, That gives them great pleasure and satisfaction when they solve the problem :-)
Thanks, Milind
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Get and read the book "Managing Humans"[^] - it is a good read and has lots of tips on being a people manager.
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Congratulations ! Advice ? The only thing I can say is that if you are going to become the manager of your current peers, that is always going to have some sticky aspects, always likely to precipitate some psychodramas. cheers, Bill
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Besides what Marc already wrote, read the article in my sig. It's really spot on.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
you still can do development but purely just help speed up production :laugh:
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Marc said to run a few times, and I have to agree with him there. I would never take a management position, and have turned down many offers over the years. You seem to be excited about it, so listen to everyone's advice and make your own decision, obviously. I hope all goes well for you. :sigh:
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Besides what Marc already wrote, read the article in my sig. It's really spot on.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
:thumbsup:
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Not so much advice but just to recant my own experiences. I too was once a Development Manager. I didn't directly apply for the role, it was gradually assigned to me as I was the most senior developer in my team at the time (this was around 5 years ago). So I gradually evolved from a Senior Software Developer into a Software Manager. And I didn't like it one bit. My passion is developing software. It's what gets me excited and puts a bounce in my step in the mornings. Slowly over time the mind crushing tedium of the role got to me. I spent less and less time doing what I loved and more and more time spent in meetings, putting together the annual budget plans, drafting the development strategy and roadmap, representing and defending the team to people who's sole objective was to blame my team for why their own team had failed. I learnt a lot about the management side of software, but that's about it. I didn't particularly enjoy my tenure as a manager, and I left after a couple of years to get back into developing software. Life is short. Spend it doing something you love.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
Wells said.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
ok, no really. The #1 rule is that you, as a manager, do not dictate, you facilitate.
I've always read that a good manager is more of a servant, and I suppose that can be true. I'll keep this in mind.
Marc Clifton wrote:
The idea is, when you facilitate them getting their job done, they will start caring about how they can facilitate you getting your job done.
Makes total sense. I reckon it'll be like a relationship. The more you put into the other person they more they'll want to put into you.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Oh, and rule #2 - never take credit for anything. Always give credit to your team
Makes sense. Oh, and btw Marc... JavaScript. I'm so evil.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
a good manager is more of a servant
Choose to be a good Servant Leader[^] might suit you I believe, as pure management is new to you! Diplomacy and politics will get you to eventually...
My site - www.FaceLaptop.com
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
project manager
Project Manager or Development manager? Many responses, including your own, would indicate that you will be managing people, but that is not what a Project Manager does. At least I've never known a single Project Manager that manages people, they manage projects. Project Manager would be a huge demotion, in my opinion.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
ok, no really. The #1 rule is that you, as a manager, do not dictate, you facilitate.
I've always read that a good manager is more of a servant, and I suppose that can be true. I'll keep this in mind.
Marc Clifton wrote:
The idea is, when you facilitate them getting their job done, they will start caring about how they can facilitate you getting your job done.
Makes total sense. I reckon it'll be like a relationship. The more you put into the other person they more they'll want to put into you.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Oh, and rule #2 - never take credit for anything. Always give credit to your team
Makes sense. Oh, and btw Marc... JavaScript. I'm so evil.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
JavaScript.
You ARE evil. Javascript is not actually that bad (did I just say that?) I had someone tell me recently that Javascript is a prototype-based language. That really helped to shift my paradigm in thinking. My main problem with Javascript is not the language, but the programming style that I often see. I find that Javascript programmers throw out everything they've learned about good programming when writing in JS. I was doing the same, which made me look at what I was doing. Functions hundreds of lines long, everything is strings, no type checking so it becomes a mess trying to figure out what the data types are. I learned to force myself to write small functions, create a reusable js file of useful stuff, use really meaningful variables (back to Hungarian notation in some cases so I know the type), take a lot of notes on all the bizarre one off stuff, and as for the lack of strong typing, well, I haven't played with Typescript, but it's on my to do list. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
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Besides what Marc already wrote, read the article in my sig. It's really spot on.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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After over 20 years of development it turns out my company is transitioning me into more of a project manager role. Yay! But, this is bit of a new venture for me since I've only done development work pretty much my entire life (since the age of 14, I'm 37 now). I see myself as an artist that enjoys creating - hands on type thing. That will never go away, but this change is needed in my career and in life as I grow my career. So, I know some CPians here have taken this road as well. And um, not to sound like a newbie posting programming questions in the Lounge, but... are there any words of advice or have resources for the new guy transitioning into the managerial role?
Jeremy Falcon
I am now 37 as well, some years ago I changed from being a one-man team to have 11 people below me in a big project for my main customer. I was the main plc programer, the only robot programer, had 2 newbies to be trained and 6 guys of other department working there. It was endless stress, but I would like to think I managed it to good terms. Project was done with customers' satisfaction and economical benefit for us. The newbies learnt a lot and there was good mood between us, the guys of the e-department... well... I had to send one home, other one was sent home by the customer andI had a couple of "encounters" with their team leader (in the project he was below me as well). :sigh: :sigh: I learnt a lot of things, some of them through painful experience... I would make again, but definitively only in sporadic basis and not as my main job. Things I was told / discovered by myself... - Be as much honest as you can, but without being it too much I mean... if you are not sure about something, say it and maybe ask for an opinion... but don't show fear on taking a decission or ask for advice. (Note the opinion vs advice) - Try to turn the decissions so that the other member think as it would be his decission. Not the same to say "We do it this way" than to say "If we can not go that way... would you go this way?" - Be consequent and strict but fair... If extra hours are needed, you stay always with them. If not needed anymore, you let them go home earlier. If you tell someone "No" for something, the "no" is for all... favouritism can be very dangerous in a group - The first time someoone makes a mistake is his error, the second one is your error... - Get responsability in a big mistake of other person once - Try to have a good mood environment, but don't forget you are not their "colleague" anymore and don't let them to get offlimits during worktime and try to separate as much as you can private / work. If you all go afterwork to drink a beer, then you are one more. If someone is critical with you during dinner, just try to learn about it but don't let it interfere on the next day. - If you have to criticize someone, try to do it with a story in "I" form "from your past" (if he doesn't know you that much) I did XXX once and the result was so bad... that... - If someone's energy/motivation is dropping, don't shout him, ask him if everything is fine out of the company. I hope it helps you :) Good Luck in your new adventure. Only one thing more... always be h