Do you enjoy the work?
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
That's just people. Some are good, some are average, some are a-holes. Doesn't matter how intelligent they are; what they do for a living; how rich, how poor; how old, how young; how white, how black; how male, how female. A-holes are a-holes. Sometimes they grow out of it (and sometimes they grow into it). Development probably has the same proportion of them as any other profession (except estate agency, recruiting, and politics). They just show up more to you because you work closely with them.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
Member 12345678 wrote:
I think I make the wrong choise
Yup I do believe you are correct, if you find details of gathering user requirements tedious then I suggest you change careers. PLEASE!!!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
No. How people treat other people has nothing to do with intelligence. It's got to do with manners and sensitivity. In fact I think that a lot of intelligent people lack those virtues.
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No. How people treat other people has nothing to do with intelligence. It's got to do with manners and sensitivity. In fact I think that a lot of intelligent people lack those virtues.
You are just asking for getting 'Sheldoned' a little. :-)
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
I've worked for startups... I've worked for big firms. They were all in the financial sector, though. In my experience, there isn't much of a correlation between user intelligence and good treatment of us geeks. Some users are easy to work with, and some are just a constant pain in the #%*#@$. That's humanity... Good apples and bad apples. And when it comes to dealing with other programmers... Same thing. Good ones and bad ones, wherever you go.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You are just asking for getting 'Sheldoned' a little. :-)
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.Well, it's not that different from what you wrote in your reply below ;-) [Edit]: I just saw that it wasn't your reply. Sorry for the confusion! btw, I don't know what "Sheldoned" means, as I don't watch "The Big Bang Theory"... ...oops, now I blew it...
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
Deadlines and "featureitis" are part of the game. Marketing will always say that they need features x, y, and z by a certain date or they will not be able to position the product. Engineering will always say that there is no way the product can be ready in time. Eventually, you discover that Marketing's feature list isn't quite as firm as they think, and Engineering often discovers a clever way around some of the difficulties. At least, that's the way it's supposed to work... :) As for coding standards, it is not for nothing that they are known as "religious preferences". In my experience, any coding standard will work as long as it's followed consistently. As for people, I have worked with all kinds. Part of being a professional is learning to live with your colleagues' quirks, but this does not mean that you should accept abuse. I hope this helps.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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That's just people. Some are good, some are average, some are a-holes. Doesn't matter how intelligent they are; what they do for a living; how rich, how poor; how old, how young; how white, how black; how male, how female. A-holes are a-holes. Sometimes they grow out of it (and sometimes they grow into it). Development probably has the same proportion of them as any other profession (except estate agency, recruiting, and politics). They just show up more to you because you work closely with them.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
What I see is different Some professions have people with similar character like politicians are extrovert and programmers are introverts. Maybe not all but more are like that I think people in medical profession care more about other people Programmer care less it looks like that, but I don't know, I only see small number.
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You are just asking for getting 'Sheldoned' a little. :-)
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.What is this sheldoned?
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What is this sheldoned?
Someone supposedly intelligent and insensitive.[^]
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Well, it's not that different from what you wrote in your reply below ;-) [Edit]: I just saw that it wasn't your reply. Sorry for the confusion! btw, I don't know what "Sheldoned" means, as I don't watch "The Big Bang Theory"... ...oops, now I blew it...
You must be very sensitive. :-)
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
The question I think you need to deal with is: is the frustration and "lack of fit" you are experiencing in the work/workplace you currently are employed in a sign that this type of work is, perhaps, not the right place/work/role for you ... at this point in your life. Of course, reading your post, we can't know what's going on in your workplace, what the "culture" is, what the norms for interaction are. And, while I suspect that you are undergoing some form of "culture shock," and that this job is a very new type of experience for you ... that's just a hypothesis. Extreme chronic personal dissatisfaction is a sign that something needs to change; the degree to which that change involves/needs/requires a change in your cognitive appraisal of "how things are" or, needs a change in the external reality (the work, your role, the environment) ... that's a very individual thing. I'd like to suggest you consider some counselling to help you clarify what's going on. best wishes, Bill
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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You must be very sensitive. :-)
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.You caught me again :-D
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
I think you already know the answer to your question. You do not find your current work situation fulfilling and need to be engaged in work that helps others in order to feel like what you are doing has meaning and purpose. You feel that your coworkers are lacking perspective on life and are small-minded and petty arguing over syntax and deadlines. This may or may not be true but it is how you feel so it's valid. If you want to stick with programming, perhaps you could create an app on the side that helps others. There are tons of examples of apps created to make the world a better place, for example see: 25 Free Apps That Are Making The World A Better Place[^]. You could also consider working in a more socially minded environment instead of a corporate setting. There also non-profits, libraries, cultural institutions, etc. that need computer programmers. You won't make as much money but you may feel more fulfilled. Basically, it comes down to money and happiness. You need to decide if the money is worth it to you. If you need the money to be happy, then treat this as your "day job" and do something truly fulfilling on the side. However, if you feel you need direct human contact to be truly fulfilled, you may be happier with a career in healthcare or teaching (just to name a couple of obvious examples). Even if you can't or don't want to become a doctor at this point, there are tons of other avenues in healthcare like nursing, physician assistant, respiratory therapy, paramedic, etc.
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
Member 12345678 wrote:
Are lot of programmers behave like a**hole, or only my company is different?
Do NOT ask me that question, lest you get a tirade. :sigh: But you did...
Member 12345678 wrote:
everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles.
Those are NOT the things that make other programmers (and I use that term so loosely it becomes devoid of meaning) look like imbeciles. You want to know what makes them look like imbeciles? 1. unrealistic, overly optimistic predictions of when work will be done, because they have NO EXPERIENCE in estimating tasks. 2. lack of planning, design, planning, architecture, planning, planning, planning. 3. constantly wanting to re-invent the wheel because they're too lazy / scared / dumb to learn what the senior developers have done 4. wanting to use the latest gizmo (language, open source, etc) with no consideration to maintainability, especially when they go away and the company is left hold a WTF is this shyte and who the heck has actual experience with it that we can hire and fix it??? 5. an absolute lack of understanding of the usefulness of unit tests, integration tests, logging, good architecture, mocking, etc. 6. an absolute lack of understanding of what tooling is necessary to support the customer, the tech support people, and the QA people. 7. no requirements documentation, just diving into coding with no consideration, thought, or exploration of the bigger picture. THOSE are the things that make other programmers look like imbeciles. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
I enjoy my work as I like to code, I also changed careers to Development from Sales. I like the fact in IT I get paid for the work done, and my check is not down to fate or luck! I have liked doing puzzles and problem solving since primary school! I see coding as an extension of this! So as I have little worries on how much I get paid and I am doing something I really like or am well suited to; I guess I am not the person to ask am I doing something I enjoy!!
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What I see is different Some professions have people with similar character like politicians are extrovert and programmers are introverts. Maybe not all but more are like that I think people in medical profession care more about other people Programmer care less it looks like that, but I don't know, I only see small number.
That's too small a sample. I've known some very extrovert developers!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I've worked for startups... I've worked for big firms. They were all in the financial sector, though. In my experience, there isn't much of a correlation between user intelligence and good treatment of us geeks. Some users are easy to work with, and some are just a constant pain in the #%*#@$. That's humanity... Good apples and bad apples. And when it comes to dealing with other programmers... Same thing. Good ones and bad ones, wherever you go.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Then I think I am unlucky, I have more of the bad apples.
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
It's more about the firm than the job. Places where it's lousy to be a developer are generally places where it's lousy to be anything. I've had bad experiences of small firms (especially family ones) and equally, you can feel a bit lost in too big a place. I generally prefer medium side places but it's the luck of the draw with all of them.
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I enjoy only one work in the past when I volunteer for MSF. I am not doctor but did other support work. I see lot of heartbreaking things what people do to others, but still I feel I am helping, but even in a small way. Now I am programmer and everyone argue about deadline and feature and where to put parentheses and a lot of things make them look like the imbeciles. Every day I like work less and less. There is more things to do because the meaningless fixes they take time. Are lot of programmers behave like asshole, or only my company is different? I think I make the wrong choise. Do everyone have to work like this? Is big company better? Is it no difference the size but intelligent people treat others better?
Welcome to the real world. Learn what really matters to you and ignore the rest.
