Web Development Stack
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My current contract is coming to an end and I'm trolling for work again. Every time I go through this I typically see more web based work than anything else, and being a purely Windows guy I have always felt a sense of dread when trying to considering learning web development. My idea of web development is something like this[^]. It seem like there are WAY too many technologies to learn to truly be effective, yet if I want to stay employed it seems that I've got no real choice. Can you guys definethe stack that I REALLY need to learn, so I can focus in on what I need? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
I feel your pain, Kevin. I'm primarily a back-end (database layer) guy myself and have been developing code for nearly 40 years. If I need GUI presentation I do it in WinForms. It's a mature (and easy-to-use) user-interface technology and despite what some of the propeller-heads say it's not going away any time soon. It runs on every version of Windows including Windows 10. Microsoft finally realized that they were playing with fire when they tried to eliminate the desktop. It's been entertaining to watch. Having said that, if you feel that you need to learn web technology I would encourage you to ease into it by learning the basics of HTML (probably HTML5 since that's the level it's at now) and work into ASP.Net. The reason for this is that you have a fighting chance at leveraging what you already know, particularly if you are already .Net aware (C# or VB.Net). I have been "dabbling" into web development for a long time and the myriad of things you have to know can drive you bonkers. In my case I've developed enough knowledge of it to fix bugs in it but to have to learn everything there is to create new stuff for the web, well, I'd just as soon be out back painting the fence at this point! I'm still tinkering with AJAX and other things here and there but not with the intent of actually developing that much with it. You're probably a bit younger than I am, so go for it but, like I said, you will probably want to pick up the basics of HTML and ASP.Net before you begin fooling around with CSS, AJAX and all the other goodies out there. The software development industry (particularly when it comes to web development) is a real minefield as far as protecting your sanity is concerned! HTH, -CM
If you think that hiring a professional is expensive wait until you hire an amateur! - Red Adair
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My current contract is coming to an end and I'm trolling for work again. Every time I go through this I typically see more web based work than anything else, and being a purely Windows guy I have always felt a sense of dread when trying to considering learning web development. My idea of web development is something like this[^]. It seem like there are WAY too many technologies to learn to truly be effective, yet if I want to stay employed it seems that I've got no real choice. Can you guys definethe stack that I REALLY need to learn, so I can focus in on what I need? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Take everything that everyone has said with a grain of salt. Different cities have completely different common stacks. For example where I am it's hardly worth knowing ASP.Net MVC because there's so many senior devs around who will convince managers that MVC is just a fad and we should stick with Web Forms. Your best bet is to look at job listings local to you and see what they're looking for.
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You make fun, but there's a grain of truth to that, especially if you combine COBOL with CICS. If you've ever worked with CICS, the web, in concept at least, ain't so strange.
Weeell, yes, unless your company is gobbled up by another that's stuck with IMS/DC and kicks CICS out. Been there, done that and sold the T-Shirt :(
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Kevin Marois wrote:
Can you guys define the stack that I REALLY need to learn
The one that will get you the job. The one that you want to use day in day out The one you can learn quickest, because it'll be redundant before you can say ASP.NET Core 1.0 Release Candidate 3 Given you're a Windows guy I'd just stick to bread and butter and learn ASP.NET MVC with C#. That'll get you most of the way there. For the backend use Entity Framework 6 (leave EF7 / EF Core for now - it's not baked) and for the front end learn Bootstrap for styling and maybe Angular 2 and TypeScript for the web based front end. This will give you enough buzzwords for your resume and enough experience to muddle your way through whatever stack they thrust upon you. It's more about learning how to deal with stateless programming and the difference between client side and server side programming. Work that one out and it's all just a variation of the same. If you want to just ditch Windows then what about PHP or Node.js? Either one is in hot demand and simple to learn.
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
Given you're a Windows guy I'd just stick to bread and butter and learn ASP.NET MVC with C#. That'll get you most of the way there. For the backend use Entity Framework 6 (leave EF7 / EF Core for now - it's not baked) and for the front end learn Bootstrap for styling and maybe Angular 2 and TypeScript for the web based front end.
I concur. Learning MVC means learning a lot of the major web building blocks -- I know 'cuz I'm doing it now. I've been out of development for a few years and my web experience is more than a decade out of date. [Been doing C# desktop and have background in HTML/CSS/XML and pre .NET ASP, plus some PHP.] At last count MVC includes: C# JavaScript JQuery Bootstrap Razor Entity Framework HTML CSS This list is not exhaustive, I've probably missed something ... Note: I have found that none of the above is difficult, but there's a lot of pieces that interact. However, it's an excellent starting point. As Chris pointed out, everything changes, so what you learn today may not be directly useful next year. But the more we learn, the more we become capable of learning, so for a web developer career, it's all movement in a positive direction.
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You make fun, but there's a grain of truth to that, especially if you combine COBOL with CICS. If you've ever worked with CICS, the web, in concept at least, ain't so strange.
ICL's TPMS system was pretty much MVC back in the 80's
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Agreed, I wouldn't use EF for anything but CRUD. But you can admittedly achieve a lot with just CRUD.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
I often think that with business apps, we are mainly pulling stuff out of a database & displaying it (screen or report) and frequently, that's it - occasionally we want to change/add some & put it back. How does it get so complicated?
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My current contract is coming to an end and I'm trolling for work again. Every time I go through this I typically see more web based work than anything else, and being a purely Windows guy I have always felt a sense of dread when trying to considering learning web development. My idea of web development is something like this[^]. It seem like there are WAY too many technologies to learn to truly be effective, yet if I want to stay employed it seems that I've got no real choice. Can you guys definethe stack that I REALLY need to learn, so I can focus in on what I need? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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I often think that with business apps, we are mainly pulling stuff out of a database & displaying it (screen or report) and frequently, that's it - occasionally we want to change/add some & put it back. How does it get so complicated?
Stewart Judson wrote:
How does it get so complicated?
Developers that think they are smarter than everyone else make it complicated by trying to write code that says "look how damn smart I am".
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
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Kevin Marois wrote:
Can you guys define the stack that I REALLY need to learn
The one that will get you the job. The one that you want to use day in day out The one you can learn quickest, because it'll be redundant before you can say ASP.NET Core 1.0 Release Candidate 3 Given you're a Windows guy I'd just stick to bread and butter and learn ASP.NET MVC with C#. That'll get you most of the way there. For the backend use Entity Framework 6 (leave EF7 / EF Core for now - it's not baked) and for the front end learn Bootstrap for styling and maybe Angular 2 and TypeScript for the web based front end. This will give you enough buzzwords for your resume and enough experience to muddle your way through whatever stack they thrust upon you. It's more about learning how to deal with stateless programming and the difference between client side and server side programming. Work that one out and it's all just a variation of the same. If you want to just ditch Windows then what about PHP or Node.js? Either one is in hot demand and simple to learn.
cheers Chris Maunder
Only #1 is relevant; unless this is a hobby. If you want to work "now", its: Magento, Umbrago, Shopify, WordPress, etc. So, study the platforms' architecture and peddle oneself accordingly. Just being able to configure, create plugins, debug these sites is worthwhile. A good start to other (web) development opportunities, IMO.
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You make fun, but there's a grain of truth to that, especially if you combine COBOL with CICS. If you've ever worked with CICS, the web, in concept at least, ain't so strange.
heh. It's really funny how we could make computers do anything we wanted with COBOL, Fortran, and all the other "old" languages, but now we seem to have trouble deciding how to make computers do what we want because we're spoiled for choice. A change in language rarely means doing anything different; it normally means learning new ways to do the same thing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
I was told that in '73
1873?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Whichever century it was, it was more than fifty years from now, so it was a hundred years before you would ever get the chance of growing a brain.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My current contract is coming to an end and I'm trolling for work again. Every time I go through this I typically see more web based work than anything else, and being a purely Windows guy I have always felt a sense of dread when trying to considering learning web development. My idea of web development is something like this[^]. It seem like there are WAY too many technologies to learn to truly be effective, yet if I want to stay employed it seems that I've got no real choice. Can you guys definethe stack that I REALLY need to learn, so I can focus in on what I need? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Kevin, I was the same way not very long ago. I have a plan to get you going. 1. Research the Tech, and get conversant in what it actually does like this: ------------------------------------------------------------- Technology Type ------------------------------------------------------------- Javascript Web Scripting Type Script Web Scripting (Compliesto js) jQuery Navigate HTML without DOM NODE JS Event Driven Asych programming languge for the web. Angular JS Advanced java Script Framework JSON XML replacement BootStrap (front-end web framework) AJAX Async HTML/Scripting REST(ful) WebAPI Web Technology/Design pattern ASP.NET MVC Web Technology/Design pattern IOC/Dependency Injection (inversion of control) Advanced Coding Technique, separates the client from having to know the services info. Entity Framework ORM Database mapper, Code gen. CSS Presentation layer manipulation Design Patterns Software Design Patterns SQL Database/Language T-SQL NoSQL Database in Memory MongoDB Database in Memory Redis in-memory data structure store, used as database, cache and message broker Kafka publish-subscribe messaging (Think 100's of millions of messages and transactions) Memcached in-memory key-value store for small chunks of arbitrary data ActionScript Replaces Flash HADOOP Big Data Informatica Premier ETL tool 2. Start with Java Script, and pick them off one at a time. Assuming you know C#, use this site to start a first web site. Commit 30 mins a day. You have to actually write the code, not just read about it. I know the list is long, but you dont have to code in all of them, the point is - get started. AND Armed with a list like above, you should be able to become conversant in them. w3schools . com has Quizzes you can take. Take the Java script quiz cold, and see what you score. The getting started part, is hard. That List above is just a primer. You need to add to it: For instance, Knockout.js is not on the list.. theres a lot more that are not on there. Just doing that research gets you conversant in the technology, then you have to do some work, but dont try to do it all in one day. It doesnt work that way. 30 min a day, is a commitment you can do. Where there's smoke, there's a Blue Screen of death.
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My current contract is coming to an end and I'm trolling for work again. Every time I go through this I typically see more web based work than anything else, and being a purely Windows guy I have always felt a sense of dread when trying to considering learning web development. My idea of web development is something like this[^]. It seem like there are WAY too many technologies to learn to truly be effective, yet if I want to stay employed it seems that I've got no real choice. Can you guys definethe stack that I REALLY need to learn, so I can focus in on what I need? Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
One more thing: To answer your question, since you know windows well, I suggest this stack: ASP.NET MVC5, TypeScript, (Compiles to java script but gives you an object model you are used to). JavaScript - its just a must, but there are a lot of frameworks out there - Angular is going to rule the world I think. Get your basic Northwind thing going on with SQL. There are links on CP that will get your started, but you have to do the "Sub Homework" on Javascript. Also - you may run into a "DEV OPS" Shop doing Aigile, scrum, Test Driven Development, and they may be using Git Hub for Source control. nUnit, and nHibernate are 2 more you will probably need. Here's how you read: Scan the text, dont labor over it. Think Speed read. You will pickup more than you realize. Then go back over it, this time doing the code. This is not the only way, but its a plan. Hopefully, I can give you that. This is doable. Where there's smoke, there's a Blue Screen of death.
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Kevin, I was the same way not very long ago. I have a plan to get you going. 1. Research the Tech, and get conversant in what it actually does like this: ------------------------------------------------------------- Technology Type ------------------------------------------------------------- Javascript Web Scripting Type Script Web Scripting (Compliesto js) jQuery Navigate HTML without DOM NODE JS Event Driven Asych programming languge for the web. Angular JS Advanced java Script Framework JSON XML replacement BootStrap (front-end web framework) AJAX Async HTML/Scripting REST(ful) WebAPI Web Technology/Design pattern ASP.NET MVC Web Technology/Design pattern IOC/Dependency Injection (inversion of control) Advanced Coding Technique, separates the client from having to know the services info. Entity Framework ORM Database mapper, Code gen. CSS Presentation layer manipulation Design Patterns Software Design Patterns SQL Database/Language T-SQL NoSQL Database in Memory MongoDB Database in Memory Redis in-memory data structure store, used as database, cache and message broker Kafka publish-subscribe messaging (Think 100's of millions of messages and transactions) Memcached in-memory key-value store for small chunks of arbitrary data ActionScript Replaces Flash HADOOP Big Data Informatica Premier ETL tool 2. Start with Java Script, and pick them off one at a time. Assuming you know C#, use this site to start a first web site. Commit 30 mins a day. You have to actually write the code, not just read about it. I know the list is long, but you dont have to code in all of them, the point is - get started. AND Armed with a list like above, you should be able to become conversant in them. w3schools . com has Quizzes you can take. Take the Java script quiz cold, and see what you score. The getting started part, is hard. That List above is just a primer. You need to add to it: For instance, Knockout.js is not on the list.. theres a lot more that are not on there. Just doing that research gets you conversant in the technology, then you have to do some work, but dont try to do it all in one day. It doesnt work that way. 30 min a day, is a commitment you can do. Where there's smoke, there's a Blue Screen of death.
Thank you
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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heh. It's really funny how we could make computers do anything we wanted with COBOL, Fortran, and all the other "old" languages, but now we seem to have trouble deciding how to make computers do what we want because we're spoiled for choice. A change in language rarely means doing anything different; it normally means learning new ways to do the same thing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Whichever century it was, it was more than fifty years from now, so it was a hundred years before you would ever get the chance of growing a brain.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
ever get the chance of growing a brain.
2 days to work on an attack and that's all you can come up with? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Did you hire your 10 year old nephew or something? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
ever get the chance of growing a brain.
2 days to work on an attack and that's all you can come up with? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Did you hire your 10 year old nephew or something? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I replied immediately after I read your message, troll.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I replied immediately after I read your message, troll.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Why doesn't your mommy love you? That has to be the only reason you chose to attack me every chance you get with insults that aren't even close to accurate or even related to the thread posting. You are desperate. Grow up old man.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Kevin Marois wrote:
Can you guys define the stack that I REALLY need to learn
The one that will get you the job. The one that you want to use day in day out The one you can learn quickest, because it'll be redundant before you can say ASP.NET Core 1.0 Release Candidate 3 Given you're a Windows guy I'd just stick to bread and butter and learn ASP.NET MVC with C#. That'll get you most of the way there. For the backend use Entity Framework 6 (leave EF7 / EF Core for now - it's not baked) and for the front end learn Bootstrap for styling and maybe Angular 2 and TypeScript for the web based front end. This will give you enough buzzwords for your resume and enough experience to muddle your way through whatever stack they thrust upon you. It's more about learning how to deal with stateless programming and the difference between client side and server side programming. Work that one out and it's all just a variation of the same. If you want to just ditch Windows then what about PHP or Node.js? Either one is in hot demand and simple to learn.
cheers Chris Maunder
Sorry to be late but want to confirm all Chris said. I recently researched the same topic and spent a lot of time looking at Python/Django before realizing I was better off sticking with the Microsoft technologies I use every day. Razor (part of the ASP.NET world) is a lot like PHP but uses C# syntax and is much nicer. I'm also adding Umbraco on top of the stack Chris describes. It's a lovely content management package with a vibrant, helpful user community.
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Why doesn't your mommy love you? That has to be the only reason you chose to attack me every chance you get with insults that aren't even close to accurate or even related to the thread posting. You are desperate. Grow up old man.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Attack you? I've never attacked you. My replies to you are out of disdain, kiddo. You're a shining beacon of dimness in this place of higher intelligence -- and, as always, the thickest thinks he's the smartest.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
