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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Read Apple's letter to Europe on Irish tax decision | The Verge[^]
Ohhh, how moving. Hold my beer while I try to shed a tear. As for the rest, you are mixing up a lot of things. I am not sure the big four are paying lots of taxes in the US neither.
Rage wrote:
As for the rest, you are mixing up a lot of things.
Like what? Apple and Ireland agreed on a tax rate. Apple paid it. The EU (not Ireland) wants more money and retroactively changes the rules to get it. What exactly have I mixed up?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax evasion / avoidance (I'm never clear on the difference) on a massive scale using practices they probably repeat in all territories. Which means that they don't contribute to the societies they depend on to provide the customers: they don't pay for the police, fire, or other emergency services; the legal system that protects their copyrights, that prosecutes those who steal from them; the penal system that jails people that contravene. They don't pay for the armed forces, and financial systems that provide them with a more-or-less stable society to buy their products. Instead, their share of that burden falls on you, me, and everybody else who does pay taxes whether they use Apple products or not. Is that right and fair? Legality be damned - any person or company rich enough seems to make it's own law, and protest like heck when it seems that protection should be removed.
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I have been a militant for banning tax evasions for years (I mean, actively, here not to mention it[^]). If you take only one year of the money yearly put in tax havens (€800 billions - that is 800,000,000,000€), you'd be able to feed countries in need for several decades. For all things that go wrong in our world, this one is certainly one of the biggest and the cause to most of other "worldwide" problems. And ironically, also probably one of the easiest to solve, if it weren't for the people who are able to solve it ... to be the first who make profit out of it :~
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Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax evasion / avoidance (I'm never clear on the difference) on a massive scale using practices they probably repeat in all territories. Which means that they don't contribute to the societies they depend on to provide the customers: they don't pay for the police, fire, or other emergency services; the legal system that protects their copyrights, that prosecutes those who steal from them; the penal system that jails people that contravene. They don't pay for the armed forces, and financial systems that provide them with a more-or-less stable society to buy their products. Instead, their share of that burden falls on you, me, and everybody else who does pay taxes whether they use Apple products or not. Is that right and fair? Legality be damned - any person or company rich enough seems to make it's own law, and protest like heck when it seems that protection should be removed.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax
Agreed!
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Rage wrote:
As for the rest, you are mixing up a lot of things.
Like what? Apple and Ireland agreed on a tax rate. Apple paid it. The EU (not Ireland) wants more money and retroactively changes the rules to get it. What exactly have I mixed up?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Mike Mullikin wrote:
What exactly have I mixed up?
Your hate for Europe and the Apple case.
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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I'm confused. My last iPhone cost null and my next iPhone will also cost null. But null != null. Is null < null or is null > null? :confused:
OriginalGriff wrote:
0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
Do you have 28 children you can write off as dependents? :-\
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Apple should repay Ireland 13bn euros, European Commission rules - BBC News[^] That's a serious tax bill! And it seems well deserved, hopefully it'll move on to Amazon and Google, who do the same thing, apparently. That really is ridiculous: 0.005% tax rate in 2014? I'd love that for me!
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Quote:
Beyond the obvious targeting of Apple, the most profound and harmful effect of this ruling will be on investment and job creation in Europe. Using the Commission’s theory, every company in Ireland and across Europe is suddenly at risk of being subjected to taxes under laws that never existed.
The questions to be answered are (1) is Ireland a sovereign nation or not? (2) if a contract is made with a sovereign nation, can others decide they don't like it and change it? (3) and finally, who'd be stupid enough to set up business anywhere in the EU if anything can happen at any time.
Are these nations or vassal states? If the later, shouldn't they drop their UN membership in favor of a single one representing the all (like the US) ?"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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If apple paid their taxes over here. Many of the giant US corporations use the bloody EU as a tax haven.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
If apple paid their taxes over here.
Apple pays about $15 billion in US federal taxes every year. They are exceeded only by Exxon Mobil and Chevron. Surely you can check your facts. :rolleyes:
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate. Apple paid it and became the largest taxpayer in Ireland. Now... years later your lovely EU decides they want more money. How on Earth is that fair? Why would any business want to do business in Europe when they can retroactively change the rules.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Because the original agreement was unfair: in 2014 Apple paid £12M taxes in the UK, on profits estimated at £2,000M because it's "head office" where tax was paid (at a rate of 0.005% instead of 36%) was in Ireland thanks to that agreement. Yes, that made it the largest tax payer in Ireland - but that's like being the person paying the most personal income tax in Greece: £20 per annum instead of £19.50! :laugh: And remember: Ireland and Greece were two of the countries that the EU had to bail out because their tax revenues weren't big enough after the crash. If Apple et al had been paying "fair" taxes instead of "legal" taxes the bail outs would have been a lot smaller...
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
What exactly have I mixed up?
Your hate for Europe and the Apple case.
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Because the original agreement was unfair: in 2014 Apple paid £12M taxes in the UK, on profits estimated at £2,000M because it's "head office" where tax was paid (at a rate of 0.005% instead of 36%) was in Ireland thanks to that agreement. Yes, that made it the largest tax payer in Ireland - but that's like being the person paying the most personal income tax in Greece: £20 per annum instead of £19.50! :laugh: And remember: Ireland and Greece were two of the countries that the EU had to bail out because their tax revenues weren't big enough after the crash. If Apple et al had been paying "fair" taxes instead of "legal" taxes the bail outs would have been a lot smaller...
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So you'll be OK if the UK tax man comes to your door and says "Sorry Griff but we're charging you back taxes despite the fact that you paid the exact amount owed at the time. We decided it really wasn't "fair"? Right? :laugh:
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
If apple paid their taxes over here.
Apple pays about $15 billion in US federal taxes every year. They are exceeded only by Exxon Mobil and Chevron. Surely you can check your facts. :rolleyes:
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
Ouch! I obsessed on how they're willing to bring in all of these accumulated off-shore assets if they get a discount on their taxes (along w/Google and others). They are two different concepts - evasion vs. what they're paying - and I messed up.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Ouch! I obsessed on how they're willing to bring in all of these accumulated off-shore assets if they get a discount on their taxes (along w/Google and others). They are two different concepts - evasion vs. what they're paying - and I messed up.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
The US corporate tax rate of 35% is obnoxious. It's no wonder American companies have $2,000,000,000,000 (yep, that's 2 trillion) in off shore accounts.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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Ireland and Apple agreed to a rate. Apple paid it and became the largest taxpayer in Ireland. Now... years later your lovely EU decides they want more money. How on Earth is that fair? Why would any business want to do business in Europe when they can retroactively change the rules.
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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If apple paid their taxes over here. Many of the giant US corporations use the bloody EU as a tax haven.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
As long as companies can pit government against government, they win. This works on all levels; local, provincial, and national. Alas, it makes you wonder if somebody is using international corporate taxes as yet another ploy for a single-currency world. Sigh.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
fair
What are you talking about, you're not a kindergartner - you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
harold aptroot wrote:
you should have no expectation that anything in real life is fair.
Ummmm... Griff used the idea of fairness as to why Apple should pay more taxes. Surely you won't begrudge me for throwing it back at him?
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
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So you'll be OK if the UK tax man comes to your door and says "Sorry Griff but we're charging you back taxes despite the fact that you paid the exact amount owed at the time. We decided it really wasn't "fair"? Right? :laugh:
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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As long as companies can pit government against government, they win. This works on all levels; local, provincial, and national. Alas, it makes you wonder if somebody is using international corporate taxes as yet another ploy for a single-currency world. Sigh.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Foothill wrote:
yet another ploy for a single-currency world.
if only that were the goal. It's a no-currency world their working towards. That's unbelievably scary.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Foothill wrote:
yet another ploy for a single-currency world.
if only that were the goal. It's a no-currency world their working towards. That's unbelievably scary.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
If it's the no-currency world of Star Trek where everything is in such great abundance that you are no longer living for subsistence and you are free to pursue your dreams, I would be okay with that. I don't think that's the case though.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right: that is tax
Agreed!
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:thumbsup: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that? :omg: The Inland Revenue can revue any tax info you submit and change how much you owe them up or down. Down is rare. :laugh:
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OriginalGriff wrote:
You mean the Internal Revenue Service doesn't do that?
If the IRS thinks a mistake was made or they believe someone fudged numbers they can and will audit you. But they NEVER change the rate retroactively. That would be illegal!
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
