As Programmers...
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What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013As a programmer, voting machines are simple machines and should/could be easily protected. As a citizen, I don't care about voting machine, I tend to be a traditionalist when it comes to voting; pen/pencil, paper, box.
I'd rather be phishing!
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I once read an article about this, not too long ago (summer I think). Hacking a system would probably be feasible, however, the sheer amount of the necessary work to do so, so that it would actually would make a difference was so high it would probably be easier to take another route to rig the elections. They gave an example in the article, but I forgot what it was.
V.
(MQOTD rules and previous solutions)
V. wrote:
it would probably be easier to take another route to rig the elections
You're not referring to big guys with shaved heads and baseball bats named "Vinnie", are you?
Cheers, Mick ------------------------------------------------ It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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V. wrote:
it would probably be easier to take another route to rig the elections
You're not referring to big guys with shaved heads and baseball bats named "Vinnie", are you?
Cheers, Mick ------------------------------------------------ It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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I once read an article about this, not too long ago (summer I think). Hacking a system would probably be feasible, however, the sheer amount of the necessary work to do so, so that it would actually would make a difference was so high it would probably be easier to take another route to rig the elections. They gave an example in the article, but I forgot what it was.
V.
(MQOTD rules and previous solutions)
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V. wrote:
They gave an example in the article, but I forgot what it was.
Shooting both candidates? :laugh:
Well, then one should fear more the one who wishes the citizen to be disarmed!
DURA LEX, SED LEX GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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I am a representative on a very local scale, but when I see the little manipulations that are done with paper voting, I would better trust a machine. Even if something is hacked or manipulated, there will somehow always be evidence that something happened, which is not the case with the paper stuff.
Evidence accessible to whom? To the people who ar so ignorant about science to consciously avoid vaccinations or those so clueless to fall into every scam ever published? People are NOT technically competent and of the so-called technically competent only a fraction of them are for real and honest enough to not be easily buyable form one party or the other. Who is able to detect a change in a executable if suche executable is promptly replaced with the original one? It's not as if filesystems and OS are bulletproof against a simple substitution of date/time, especially if physical access to the machine is possible.
DURA LEX, SED LEX GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013There are more ways to fraud a paper ballot than an electronic one. If the e-voting is properly audited, then the chance of undetected fraud is much lower than even the best manual system.
veni bibi saltavi
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There are more ways to fraud a paper ballot than an electronic one. If the e-voting is properly audited, then the chance of undetected fraud is much lower than even the best manual system.
veni bibi saltavi
Fraction Magic - Detailed Vote Rigging Demonstration - YouTube[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Fraction Magic - Detailed Vote Rigging Demonstration - YouTube[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013No that doesn't show anything of the sort. I do not pretend to know everything about GEMS, but if the only recording of a vote is the database record I would be very surprised. I go back to my first point, auditing. In theory they could change the vote enough to give whoever they wanted enough support BUT. And this is a big BUT. BUT will it tally with the raw data? A person goes and casts his vote. An audit point would be collected of a vote for X at that machine at that time. The votes would then be tallied, surely not once as that is asking for fraud, but several times. For the fraud to work, you would need to change the VOTE and all it's records. Not the TALLY.
veni bibi saltavi
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+1
DURA LEX, SED LEX GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
is it just coincidence that both of you are italians? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P to be honest... I had thought it as well (I am spanish)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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V. wrote:
They gave an example in the article, but I forgot what it was.
Shooting both candidates? :laugh:
In this case... that would not be a problem, that would be the solution :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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No that doesn't show anything of the sort. I do not pretend to know everything about GEMS, but if the only recording of a vote is the database record I would be very surprised. I go back to my first point, auditing. In theory they could change the vote enough to give whoever they wanted enough support BUT. And this is a big BUT. BUT will it tally with the raw data? A person goes and casts his vote. An audit point would be collected of a vote for X at that machine at that time. The votes would then be tallied, surely not once as that is asking for fraud, but several times. For the fraud to work, you would need to change the VOTE and all it's records. Not the TALLY.
veni bibi saltavi
I think I heard that a couple elections ago, here in Ohio they found a machine that changed the votes between cast and record. I do not know if the machine was actually used or just found.
Mongo: Mongo only pawn... in game of life.
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is it just coincidence that both of you are italians? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P to be honest... I had thought it as well (I am spanish)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Sincerely, I don't think so... Italian (and Spanish) people are quite renowned for being crafty entrepreneurs - IIRC Columbo was an Italian man on Spanish ships (and loaned gold).
DURA LEX, SED LEX GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I actually interviewed with a company that makes those machines. And having met the people programming some of those machines, I do not have any real faith in them. The "lead developer" didn't know what Parse and TryParse functions do. And the other devs weren't much better.
Speed of sound - 1100 ft/sec Speed of light - 186,000 mi/sec Speed of stupid - instantaneous.
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What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
What is your opinion of the security of voting online or with an electronic voting device with regards to hacking and/or manipulating the results? BTW, this would have made a great poll question this week.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013When the outcome may be worth billions to someone (company, country,...), there's no way enough money would be spent to architect and implement a 'hackproof' system.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Hi, I don't think we are quite ready for an electronic voting system. I personally think we should revisit the idea in another 4-8 years. Best Wishes, -David Delaune
I think every voter should be made to cut his hand with his hunting knife, and press his bleeding palm on a rock to indicate his preference.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I think every voter should be made to cut his hand with his hunting knife, and press his bleeding palm on a rock to indicate his preference.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think every voter should be made to cut his hand with his hunting knife, and press his bleeding palm on a rock to indicate his preference.
I know you are joking... but using DNA signing is a perfectly valid biometric method for user identification/verification. Best Wishes, -David Delaune