Why Windows 10?
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<GrumpyOldFartView>I have developed on and for every version of Windows since 3.1. Each time a new version came out, there has always been a group that claimed the new version was so horrible that they refused to use or develop for it. This attitude is contra-survival in a professional sense. Your refusal to adapt will simply leave you behind. The world and more importantly your customers will upgrade, with or without you. If your products do not work in the new environment, they will find a provider whose products do. This is natural selection in the business world, or what's known in party conversations as "tough luck".</GrumpyOldFartView>Software Zen:
delete this;I realise I am going to have to go to it eventually. I have changed to each successive version starting at DOS 2.20 and only skipping over Windows ME after a quick test. I still run a Vista machine, XP and W2K file servers at home. What I was looking for was a "good" reason, not a "forced by circumstances" reason.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Forogar wrote:
Perhaps but they could just as easily keep supporting Windows 7, probably with a lot less effort.
Not sure how supporting two different code streams is "a lot less effort" than supporting one.
Forogar wrote:
Obviously it is "newer" but that doesn't necessarily mean "better"
I wasn't trying to make that argument.
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Not sure how supporting two different code streams is "a lot less effort" than supporting one.
Simple. Don't support two. Drop WInX altogether and just fix Win7 with all the latest improvements.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Quote:
Not sure how supporting two different code streams is "a lot less effort" than supporting one.
Simple. Don't support two. Drop WInX altogether and just fix Win7 with all the latest improvements.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Forogar wrote:
Simple. Don't support two. Drop WInX altogether and just fix Win7 with all the latest improvements.
Ok, you go ahead and try to convince Microsoft it needs to do that. Jeez, I'm honestly trying to figure things out and suggest rational solutions that can work for people and this is the sort of childish discussion I get dragged into. Are you a Slashdot reject?
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Forogar wrote:
Simple. Don't support two. Drop WInX altogether and just fix Win7 with all the latest improvements.
Ok, you go ahead and try to convince Microsoft it needs to do that. Jeez, I'm honestly trying to figure things out and suggest rational solutions that can work for people and this is the sort of childish discussion I get dragged into. Are you a Slashdot reject?
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Are you a Slashdot reject?
I have never been rejected by Slashdot... whatever that is! :doh: This is meant to be a reasoned discussion which does not necessarily have to have any resemblance to actual reality. If you consider it a "childish discussion" and don't wish to take part then please feel free to not take any further part. I will not be offended in any way if you do not respond to my, or anyone else's, posts. ;)
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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This may be a little late but now that it has been out in the wild, rampaging around and causing untold damage and misery, why would anyone downgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7? (I can see why for Win8 to WinX, but not from Win7). I am looking for good, solid reasons; not just "it's better" or "it's better on tablets" or "it's got a cooler UI" - none of which are, in my opinion, even a little bit true. These need to be reasons that couldn't have been implemented with a quick update to Windows 7. Anyone? ...and don't give any of that bull about it being more stable, because it clearly is actually less stable! ...and I don't care that it starts up faster. I rarely have to restart Windows 7; it runs for months on my desktops and laptops (with no hibernation/wake-up problems, ever).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
No reason now, win7 is fast, stable, I know it down to the details and supports whatever I need. When and only when Win10 will have features I will absolutely need then I will chnage - in the meantime most of the population will have exeprienced all kind of crap with Win10 so either MS will have fixed it or there will be third party tools that solve the leftover problems, widely used debugged and documented. I change from stable to stable, a system that cannot go on for more than 2 months without non strictly-security updates is a Work In Progress, and I don't buy beta versions nor preorders. When your system works on 99% of systems and you don't have to keep updating it then I will think about switching.
DURA LEX, SED LEX GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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This may be a little late but now that it has been out in the wild, rampaging around and causing untold damage and misery, why would anyone downgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7? (I can see why for Win8 to WinX, but not from Win7). I am looking for good, solid reasons; not just "it's better" or "it's better on tablets" or "it's got a cooler UI" - none of which are, in my opinion, even a little bit true. These need to be reasons that couldn't have been implemented with a quick update to Windows 7. Anyone? ...and don't give any of that bull about it being more stable, because it clearly is actually less stable! ...and I don't care that it starts up faster. I rarely have to restart Windows 7; it runs for months on my desktops and laptops (with no hibernation/wake-up problems, ever).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Forogar wrote:
and I don't care that it starts up faster
If it does start up faster, disable Fast Start. I am one of the many who has lost his system drive because of that poorly implemented PoC (search on "0xc000000f - The Boot Selection Failed Because A Required Device Is Inaccessible"). It's not worth the risk.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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For me it was to test all functionality, as well as my development environment, before I endorse it to the higher-ups. IMHO, it is not ready, but it is close and eventually we'll need to move to a new OS.
Tony Foo wrote:
eventually we'll need to move to a new OS.
Linux, or MacOS?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Because I like it better. I can see you are going to deny whatever argument I put forward, so I will stop at that.
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
Super Lloyd wrote:
Because I like it better.
Best reason in the world. I hate it, though.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I too have been using Windows 10 since pre-release days on several machines. I have found it stable and reliable and as good if not better than windows 7. The one thing I like about Win 10 over Win 7 is that Win10 has VM tech (Hyper-V) built into it, Win7 has none. And it works really well. One drawback that Hyper-V has is it doesn't connect to usb devices so the VM's won't see them. You have to use third-party software to enable that. I also find the settings panels in Win10 much butter and easier to traverse than the control panel in Win 7, although the control panel is still there. But more and more of it is moving to the settings paradigm with each update.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
HyperV's not much good, compared to third-party apps (VMWare, anyone?). What I did like was multiple desktop support (finally! After Linux had had it for years!), but I stopped using it because it didn't even come close to the usefulness of DexPot. IMO, they should focus their OS development on developing and fixing the OS, rather than ignore OS bugs and create buggy, inferior versions of apps that third parties do better. If asked if I would prefer reliable hardware drivers or have a naff media player/VM client/multi-desktop app baked in, I know what my answer would be.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
This may be a little late but now that it has been out in the wild, rampaging around and causing untold damage and misery, why would anyone downgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7? (I can see why for Win8 to WinX, but not from Win7). I am looking for good, solid reasons; not just "it's better" or "it's better on tablets" or "it's got a cooler UI" - none of which are, in my opinion, even a little bit true. These need to be reasons that couldn't have been implemented with a quick update to Windows 7. Anyone? ...and don't give any of that bull about it being more stable, because it clearly is actually less stable! ...and I don't care that it starts up faster. I rarely have to restart Windows 7; it runs for months on my desktops and laptops (with no hibernation/wake-up problems, ever).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
When I was about 10, I used to go to stay with my Gran during the holidays. On Mondays she used to do the washing. This involved lighting a fire under a large copper boiler in which to boil the clothes. Once the washing cycle was complete, I used to help her remove most of the water from the clothes prior to hanging them out to dry. This involved turning the handle on a large cast-iron mangle that was taller than I was. Woe betide if you got your fingers caught in the large wooden rollers. How quickly do you think she changed when small electric washing machines with an integrated wringer came out. Exactly!!!!
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When I was about 10, I used to go to stay with my Gran during the holidays. On Mondays she used to do the washing. This involved lighting a fire under a large copper boiler in which to boil the clothes. Once the washing cycle was complete, I used to help her remove most of the water from the clothes prior to hanging them out to dry. This involved turning the handle on a large cast-iron mangle that was taller than I was. Woe betide if you got your fingers caught in the large wooden rollers. How quickly do you think she changed when small electric washing machines with an integrated wringer came out. Exactly!!!!
You know that that is really no comparison, don't you?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You know that that is really no comparison, don't you?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You're right, of course. I should have just gone down for my breakfast when She shouted me.
Jeeze. If I spent time chatting after having been called, my breakfast would be in the cat.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Jeeze. If I spent time chatting after having been called, my breakfast would be in the cat.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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<GrumpyOldFartView>I have developed on and for every version of Windows since 3.1. Each time a new version came out, there has always been a group that claimed the new version was so horrible that they refused to use or develop for it. This attitude is contra-survival in a professional sense. Your refusal to adapt will simply leave you behind. The world and more importantly your customers will upgrade, with or without you. If your products do not work in the new environment, they will find a provider whose products do. This is natural selection in the business world, or what's known in party conversations as "tough luck".</GrumpyOldFartView>Software Zen:
delete this;Somehow, I get the feeling that the "WinX suxx / Win7 rools" group are the same people who, a few years back, were proclaiming that Windows XP was the best version ever produced, and they'd never be moving to Vista / 7 because it was so terrible. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Vulkan capabilities are more or less the same as DirectX 12. Game developers decided to stick with DirectX because of historical reasons and fear.
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Quote:
Are you a Slashdot reject?
I have never been rejected by Slashdot... whatever that is! :doh: This is meant to be a reasoned discussion which does not necessarily have to have any resemblance to actual reality. If you consider it a "childish discussion" and don't wish to take part then please feel free to not take any further part. I will not be offended in any way if you do not respond to my, or anyone else's, posts. ;)
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
-
HyperV's not much good, compared to third-party apps (VMWare, anyone?). What I did like was multiple desktop support (finally! After Linux had had it for years!), but I stopped using it because it didn't even come close to the usefulness of DexPot. IMO, they should focus their OS development on developing and fixing the OS, rather than ignore OS bugs and create buggy, inferior versions of apps that third parties do better. If asked if I would prefer reliable hardware drivers or have a naff media player/VM client/multi-desktop app baked in, I know what my answer would be.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
HyperV's not much good, compared to third-party apps (VMWare, anyone?).
I use both every day and except for USB support I see little difference between the two.
Mark_Wallace wrote:
multiple desktop support
Windows has had this capability (and I've used it) since Windows NT 3.51 days.
Mark_Wallace wrote:
reliable hardware drivers
Usually the fault of whatever 3rd party hardware vendor you're using.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
HyperV's not much good, compared to third-party apps (VMWare, anyone?).
I use both every day and except for USB support I see little difference between the two.
Mark_Wallace wrote:
multiple desktop support
Windows has had this capability (and I've used it) since Windows NT 3.51 days.
Mark_Wallace wrote:
reliable hardware drivers
Usually the fault of whatever 3rd party hardware vendor you're using.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzI use both every day and except for USB support I see little difference between the two.
Well, for one thing, there's no USB support (in case you hadn't noticed).
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzWindows has had this capability (and I've used it) since Windows NT 3.51 days.
Not sure about that, but who works on a server, anyway?
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzUsually the fault of whatever 3rd party hardware vendor you're using.
... Who make their drivers according to the information provided to them by ms. It's easy to blame a guy for using the wrong sized drill bit when you don't tell him what size hole you want -- have you ever tried contacting ms because you need information on how to align with their products?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOzI use both every day and except for USB support I see little difference between the two.
Well, for one thing, there's no USB support (in case you hadn't noticed).
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzWindows has had this capability (and I've used it) since Windows NT 3.51 days.
Not sure about that, but who works on a server, anyway?
TheGreatAndPowerfulOzUsually the fault of whatever 3rd party hardware vendor you're using.
... Who make their drivers according to the information provided to them by ms. It's easy to blame a guy for using the wrong sized drill bit when you don't tell him what size hole you want -- have you ever tried contacting ms because you need information on how to align with their products?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
there's no USB support (in case you hadn't noticed).
I'm not sure if your statement is sarcasm or not, but in case YOU didn't notice I already said that. BTW, VMWare doesn't come with USB support unless you also install the VMWare tools.
Mark_Wallace wrote:
works on a server
NT 3.51 was also a workstation OS. See Windows NT 4.0 - Wikipedia[^] for multi-desktop support.
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Who make their drivers according to the information provided to them by ms.
Yes, and as we all know driver writers never write bugs into their software and always follow MS directives to the "T". :rolleyes: And yah I know it's difficult to get info out of MS. Been there done that (not with drivers tho). But as someone who often has to write software that interfaces with drivers and get information from them about the hardware they supposedly support, I know most drivers I have encountered have plenty of problems and often cause issues not only for the OS but for their own hardware.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
