Life as developer (on-call)
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
I hate using phones as a result...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I responded, "On salary? Are you out of your f*ckin minds?", and I was out the door.
You took time to respond to them? So kind of you. As soon as that 'we expect 60 hours' was said just walking out without saying a thing would have sent the loudest message.
Sin tack ear lol Pressing the any key may be continuate
You can tell them off while getting out of your chair and walking you know. :-\
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Well, it's full of stars, and maybe I'm getting to old for this. I'll phone home, to see if anyone's in, and get the smeg out of here, if there is. Don't worry, though; I'll be back.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Kevin I hate to tell you this but there are positions out there that pay that sort of money and more, I am of similar experience and have a niche position that is more than comparable. The conditions may be crap but the raw income is excellent.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
I have turned down a lot of 24/7 - 365 stuff. But I "am" on call because of my consulting work. I have been called in at all hours, and remember a few years ago a 10pm call in, I left at 7am and slept the entire day. I focus on having things setup so I am not needed like that. (Fail to backup, start the restore. Or fail to backup, and WAIT until I wake up, LOL) Nowadays with workers across the globe, hire some bloke in Australia or vice versa. We have a few Russians to help cover the nights if we need it. But we work to LIVE, not the other way around. Or at least we shouldn't.
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I moved as a developer in manufacturing and utility environments since 1986. For the first 13 years, I was on call for the items I developed/supported, and that was 7x24x365. There was also 24x7x365 on site coverage by a separate group - they 'operators' if you will. They had a manual for each system describing common issues and how to address them. We would only be called if there was an issue they couldn't resolve. Even at that, having in depth knowledge of the system, we could resolve most of the issues without having to log in. Then.. new position - not on call for the first 7 years while I was a contractor; the last 5 years were as an employee and then I was on call for everything in the department, and that was about 1 week out of 8. In my position now, I am on call every 10 weeks. All 'calls' are handled as text messages and support can be done remotely - I take my laptop phone every night. So... on call? I like what I do for a living; I develop relationships with the rank-and-file and they appreciate the service they get.
I also work in the manufacturing industry and have had many years of on call support. Even though it is not always fun, it was very valuable. In the manufacturing industry (industrial robotics) it really helps to understand the environment in which these machines operate. It is important to also understand all the different kinds of users. This domain knowledge is what differentiates the great developers from good or average developers. The code we write is not always that difficult, but without an understanding of the context, it is easy to make the wrong technical decisions. I am glad I did the on-call support early in my career. Definitely....
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.... and zero scruples ;P
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
As long as there's not zero underwear. I'm pretty sure you don't look like Sharon Stone.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
on call here too 24/7+ my normal working hours, but mine is on site trips, sometimes I can call into a customer's computer and fix the issue, but 9 times out of 10 it's a hardware issue and I'll have to travel to the customer. all that for $65k a year. I dream of quitting this job for the last 17 years. 3 more and my kids will have moved out might be time for a change then. :-D
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Leng Vang wrote:
What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
It was a requirement at my first job, which quickly no longer applied to me. Slept through some calls, and whenever I didn't I would still have to wake up some coworker to get anything done. You'd get paid extra for it, ofcourse. There's no such thing as work without pay. That simple sentence is a kind of auto-balance system in itself :thumbsup:
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
I wouldn't mind being on call if paid overtime. My previous job and the one from Amazon are not. Being on a fixed salary and they expected 60+ hours out of developer and even I spend 3 hours support at 3 am, I expected to show up for work at 8 am. No over time paid.
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Everyone* spends the majority of their waking hours working. If you hate your work, you're pretty much screwed. * Everyone with a full-time job, that is.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I hate using phones as a result...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Programming (development) is my hobby, also my work. I like working, but when my free times could at any time belongs to my boss or company, it is time to hang the hat and move on.
Good attitude. Giving a little extra when there's a rush on is one thing, but I've worked place where there was always a rush on. The down side of leaving, though, is that situations like that are where you can get to know some really great people.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I have turned down a lot of 24/7 - 365 stuff. But I "am" on call because of my consulting work. I have been called in at all hours, and remember a few years ago a 10pm call in, I left at 7am and slept the entire day. I focus on having things setup so I am not needed like that. (Fail to backup, start the restore. Or fail to backup, and WAIT until I wake up, LOL) Nowadays with workers across the globe, hire some bloke in Australia or vice versa. We have a few Russians to help cover the nights if we need it. But we work to LIVE, not the other way around. Or at least we shouldn't.
Getting paid for off hours work is an expected bonus. Working off hours for free and especially where you have to get up at the middle of dinner or 3 am just to solve an issue is a pain. I did it when I was younger, now getting up really takes some effort.
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being on call is one thing.... Actually getting called is another. This all depends on how often my off hours get interrupted.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
I used to get calls at 2 A.M. when I wasn't even listed as being the member on call. Having to get dressed and go to the office that early in the morning, sucks. And no consequences (not even a comment) for the guy who was supposed to be on, and take the call, didn't make it any better.
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I wouldn't mind being on call if paid overtime. My previous job and the one from Amazon are not. Being on a fixed salary and they expected 60+ hours out of developer and even I spend 3 hours support at 3 am, I expected to show up for work at 8 am. No over time paid.
Leng Vang wrote:
Being on a fixed salary and they expected 60+ hours out of developer and even I spend 3 hours support at 3 am, I expected to show up for work at 8 am. No over time paid.
Those kind of hours and times make you less productive, and the more tired the programmer is the more bugs one can expect. As a worker, you are trading time and knowledge for money. By working "for free" you're accepting an unfair trade. So, don't do that :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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Its really a young man's game to get some cash in the bank. As you get older, your family become more important and your life priorities change. I did it for a number of years, but as I've aged, I now have no interest in the stress or hassle and disruptions that comes with it. I find it eventually wears you down.
Same for me (I'm 51 now). Top !