And so it starts....
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Its not toxic to man till much higher levels,
pollution is not only about simple toxicity.
Is water pollution too because you can drown in it?
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You asked me for one fact that was wrong in the article. I gave you one fact that was wrong in the article. What's your problem? And if you'd read the article, you'd see that he didn't criticize them for using "bad" data; merely for using "preliminary" data, which hadn't been completely verified. There's a difference, but you probably won't be able to see it. Since the data hasn't been verified yet, we don't know whether it's bad or good. Come back to the story when the data has been verified, and we know whether it's a load of BS, or yet more evidence of CAGW.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
pretending that the contents of the emails are only comprehensible to 'climate scientists'
Well, they're clearly NOT comprehensible to tabloid journalists or climate-change deniers. Unless you're saying that the contents were deliberately misrepresented to back up your own point of view? :rolleyes:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
You didnt provide a wrong fact. The emails clearly suggested data had been modified to fit the story. The Mil was 100% correct to state that. Yeah, 'Mikes Nature trick to hide the decline' was so self explanatory if you examine Manns chart you can see where he cut off the decline.
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Mate - you're going to need a bigger wooden spoon to stir the pot up a little more. Don't you have something fresh to anti-conspire about?
cheers Chris Maunder
Nope, just the CAGW scam. :)
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Is water pollution too because you can drown in it?
pollution is simply something - introduced by man - that damages an environment. if the environment depends on the absence of water to be useful (a desert), water could certainly be a pollutant.
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Nope, just the CAGW scam. :)
I've got way too much on my plate today and so need the procrastination. So: what about you got against Citizens Against Government Waste? Gimme the 30 second executive summary. Embellish as needed.
cheers Chris Maunder
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pollution is simply something - introduced by man - that damages an environment. if the environment depends on the absence of water to be useful (a desert), water could certainly be a pollutant.
:laugh:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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:laugh:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
know anyone with a salt water fish tank? ask them if you can add a couple of gallons of fresh water to the tank.
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know anyone with a salt water fish tank? ask them if you can add a couple of gallons of fresh water to the tank.
LMFAO! :rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah, mother nature does that all the time. Still not a pollutant.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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LMFAO! :rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah, mother nature does that all the time. Still not a pollutant.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
are you mother nature? pollution is something humans do. otherwise, it's just the fucking world doing what it does.
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are you mother nature? pollution is something humans do. otherwise, it's just the fucking world doing what it does.
humans are part of "mother nature", soo... yeah, you got it. Not pollution.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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humans are part of "mother nature", soo... yeah, you got it. Not pollution.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
oh fer fuck's sake
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A different simpleton (or rather, group of them) said the same thing about acid rain. The formation of pristine clear lakes - totally lifeless - surrounded by dying forests was ignored. UNTIL . . . the acid rain began to erode the finish on their pickup - that's when they realized that they couldn't pretend it wasn't there any more. It wasn't there forests or their lakes - but when it was their damn paint; well, that was something different. So - you and your cult of deniers? You've been around before.
- The earth is flat.
- Evolution is a hoax.
- Climate change is just so much BS.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
3. Climate change is just so much BS.
Climate Change' is not under discussion. Anthropogenic Global Warming due to CO2 is. In his paper: Volcanic contribution to decadal changes in tropospheric temperature. Santer, et al (Nature Geoscience 7, Feb. 2014) Dr Benjamin Santer adjusted the TLT satellite data of UAH and RSS, and a CMIP-5 climate model ensemble, to remove ‘natural variability’ - ENSO and Volcanic signals - from both. This reduced the warming trend of both the TLT data, and the CMIP-5 model ensemble. http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n3/fig_tab/ngeo2098_F1.html[^] Without 'natural variability', the TLT warming trend (1979 – 2014) was less than that of the multi-model average, and there was a period of no TLT warming (1994 to 2014) while atmospheric CO2 rose from ~360 ppm to ~400 ppm. Benjamin Santer is an IPCC author, as are several of the 'et al'. TLT - Temperature, Lower Troposphere UAH - University of Alabama in Huntsville RSS - Remote Sensing Systems CMIP-5 - Coupled Model Intercomparison Project - Phase 5 ENSO - El Niño–Southern Oscillation
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oh fer fuck's sake
I know not what carnal relations have to do with the subject, but hey to each his own.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
3. Climate change is just so much BS.
Climate Change' is not under discussion. Anthropogenic Global Warming due to CO2 is. In his paper: Volcanic contribution to decadal changes in tropospheric temperature. Santer, et al (Nature Geoscience 7, Feb. 2014) Dr Benjamin Santer adjusted the TLT satellite data of UAH and RSS, and a CMIP-5 climate model ensemble, to remove ‘natural variability’ - ENSO and Volcanic signals - from both. This reduced the warming trend of both the TLT data, and the CMIP-5 model ensemble. http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n3/fig_tab/ngeo2098_F1.html[^] Without 'natural variability', the TLT warming trend (1979 – 2014) was less than that of the multi-model average, and there was a period of no TLT warming (1994 to 2014) while atmospheric CO2 rose from ~360 ppm to ~400 ppm. Benjamin Santer is an IPCC author, as are several of the 'et al'. TLT - Temperature, Lower Troposphere UAH - University of Alabama in Huntsville RSS - Remote Sensing Systems CMIP-5 - Coupled Model Intercomparison Project - Phase 5 ENSO - El Niño–Southern Oscillation
:thumbsup: :laugh:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
3. Climate change is just so much BS.
Climate Change' is not under discussion. Anthropogenic Global Warming due to CO2 is. In his paper: Volcanic contribution to decadal changes in tropospheric temperature. Santer, et al (Nature Geoscience 7, Feb. 2014) Dr Benjamin Santer adjusted the TLT satellite data of UAH and RSS, and a CMIP-5 climate model ensemble, to remove ‘natural variability’ - ENSO and Volcanic signals - from both. This reduced the warming trend of both the TLT data, and the CMIP-5 model ensemble. http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n3/fig_tab/ngeo2098_F1.html[^] Without 'natural variability', the TLT warming trend (1979 – 2014) was less than that of the multi-model average, and there was a period of no TLT warming (1994 to 2014) while atmospheric CO2 rose from ~360 ppm to ~400 ppm. Benjamin Santer is an IPCC author, as are several of the 'et al'. TLT - Temperature, Lower Troposphere UAH - University of Alabama in Huntsville RSS - Remote Sensing Systems CMIP-5 - Coupled Model Intercomparison Project - Phase 5 ENSO - El Niño–Southern Oscillation
Now that you've finished trying to divert from the issue - do you know how science is done? One needs a baseline to make measurement - and ultimately, to take into account variations from sources external to the experiment*. There is what can fall into the category of "background noise". If you don't consider it's effect on data you'll never see anything - or more correctly, anything useful. Here - let me explain this yet again: The earth's atmosphere is essentially a closed system, chemically. Sunlight adds energy to the system on one side of the earth (daytime) and it radiates back into space on the other side. This reaches a steady state for overall planetary energy content. Now, we've been pouring old carbon back into the system (as CO2 for some time now, at an every increasing rate, and at the same time, have been removing those components of the environment that sequester it. We have changed the contents of this test-tube we call the atmosphere. It will now strive to reach a new equilibrium. So - drop the smoke-and-mirrors - and explain how the atmosphere will react to the new contents. Something's got to happen. Humans are adding the carbon (sources); humans are cutting down the forests (sinks); and the sun still shines as brightly as before - so anthropogenic it is. Do you really think that nothing at all will happen? * For example, when I wrote an application to take XPS data (Xray Photoelectron Spectroscopy) I had to take into account the "natural variability" of the odd cosmic ray passing through the detector an creating a spike of non-data. It had to be removed from the data in order to actually get the data. These events weren't common - but their effect on interpretation of the spectra was profound unless filtered out. Background Noise - you have to look beyond it.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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pollution is simply something - introduced by man - that damages an environment. if the environment depends on the absence of water to be useful (a desert), water could certainly be a pollutant.
Why just man, how about bird shit: http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/01/62/016226_87d6eda3.jpg[^]
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oh fer fuck's sake
BINGO! Its the original sin, man is not part of nature etc etc etc that Enviros believe. Man ate the apple and gained industry, and now has to give it up to be re-admitted to the garden of eden (nature/gaia/etc). We are part of nature, fully. Many animals use tools, many animals are intelligent, we arent that special, except by degree.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
then to plants no, it isnt.
are you a plant?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
0.8 C, a long way from 2C still
a long way for you. not for people born today.
Chris Losinger wrote:
are you a plant?
Since i consume them every day then yes, I am made of plant derived matter.
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I've got way too much on my plate today and so need the procrastination. So: what about you got against Citizens Against Government Waste? Gimme the 30 second executive summary. Embellish as needed.
cheers Chris Maunder
If CO2's effect on temperature is minimal, ie about 1C, the bottom end of the IPCC range, then we should produce lots more of it since it is a huge benefit to the planet. So its not a question of waste, its a question of doing the wrong thing. And if we are heading to a new ice age we need all the warmign we can get....
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Why just man, how about bird shit: http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/01/62/016226_87d6eda3.jpg[^]
are you a fucking bird? human-caused is implicit in the notion of pollution.
