The future is impossible
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Two objects pass each other with 0,6*c (like trains that go in different direction) and from either of the object it would "look" like you pass each other with 1,2*c ? Now the question is would you see the other object passing?
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}HobbyProggy wrote:
from either of the object it would "look" like you pass each other with 1,2*c ?
No. That's actually from a gedanken experiment written up by Einstein with respect to light on a moving train, etc.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Not sending information via phase velocity at greater than c: I had that explained to me ca. 30 years ago. I had suggested a physical device, essentially a giant scissor, which could open and close and non-relativistic velocities with respect to it's physical form, but the point at which the two parts of the scissor meet (a phase) moves faster than the scissor if the scissor is long enough. So - make the scissor long enough so that the intersection exceeds c whilst no actual parts do - but the signal is sent from end-to-end by observing the motion of the tips of the scissor. The physicist said what would happen is that the scissor would actually bend (relativisticly) to prevent the signal from exceeding c. This would, I suggest, connect with your wording "appear" to exceed see with your laser-spot-to-the-moon concept. But wait! Stuff does exceed c under certain circumstance: if moving at c to begin with, a photon entering a new medium with a higher index of refraction will, momentarily, exceed see. This is observed as the bluish glow observed in the cooling water around a nuclear reactor (Cherenkov radiation). So - their is ever so small a chink in the armor of no-way, albeit admittedly it wouldn't help out much if traveling in a vacuum.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
if moving at c to begin with, a photon entering a new medium with a higher index of refraction will, momentarily, exceed see.
Special Relativity does not forbid a photon (or other particle) moving at higher than the Speed of Light in a medium. It only forbid moving faster than the Speed of Light in vacuum. EDIT: As for the scissors' blades, the question is - what started them moving? The signal that the part of the blade closer to the join is rotating cannot move faster than the Speed of Light, so at any time - the blade will not be moving faster than light. Note that this problem involves acceleration (any point on the blade is moving in a circle), so it can't be solved by using Special Relativity.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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HobbyProggy wrote:
from either of the object it would "look" like you pass each other with 1,2*c ?
No. That's actually from a gedanken experiment written up by Einstein with respect to light on a moving train, etc.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Yes, but Clarke admitted that those statements were completely erroneous, a few weeks after his 30th birthday.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
if moving at c to begin with, a photon entering a new medium with a higher index of refraction will, momentarily, exceed see.
Special Relativity does not forbid a photon (or other particle) moving at higher than the Speed of Light in a medium. It only forbid moving faster than the Speed of Light in vacuum. EDIT: As for the scissors' blades, the question is - what started them moving? The signal that the part of the blade closer to the join is rotating cannot move faster than the Speed of Light, so at any time - the blade will not be moving faster than light. Note that this problem involves acceleration (any point on the blade is moving in a circle), so it can't be solved by using Special Relativity.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
So, now I have a question: One is in a medium with n > 1 looking out into a medium with a lesser n How does the external light appear to them from the point of view of their higher n medium?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The Earth was known to be flat. Bloodlettings were known to be healthy...
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
den2k88 wrote:
Bloodlettings were known to be healthy...
Yes, but that was before we found the limit of our universe. Nowadays you'd need to be very convincing and stuff. It is also not limited to what we know, but what we can observe - has there ever been a particle observed that moved faster?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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den2k88 wrote:
Bloodlettings were known to be healthy...
Yes, but that was before we found the limit of our universe. Nowadays you'd need to be very convincing and stuff. It is also not limited to what we know, but what we can observe - has there ever been a particle observed that moved faster?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Have we the technology to observe faster particles?
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
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What kind of vacuum? No real vacuum has been actually observed, only approximations of it.
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
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Lately I am seeing articles from Futurist who say that this or that is impossible. A good example would be faster than light speed travel. I'm old. I've seen everything from floor model radios to 98 inch flat screen TVs with Netflix etc. I would be afraid to say any technological advance is impossible.
Leadership equals wrecked ship. If you think you are leading my look behind you. You are alone. If you think I am leading you, You are lost.
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Ygnaiih wrote:
I would be afraid to say any technological advance is impossible.
The speed of light is a known physical limit of the universe. It has little to do with what we can invent, and more with the limits that exisist in the universe.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
But that still doesn't completely rule out the Alcubierre drive[^]. We just need to find some exotic matter with a negative energy density. If everyone here could have a look down the back of their sofas, I'm sure we'd be able to find some. :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Lately I am seeing articles from Futurist who say that this or that is impossible. A good example would be faster than light speed travel. I'm old. I've seen everything from floor model radios to 98 inch flat screen TVs with Netflix etc. I would be afraid to say any technological advance is impossible.
Leadership equals wrecked ship. If you think you are leading my look behind you. You are alone. If you think I am leading you, You are lost.
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Lately I am seeing articles from Futurist who say that this or that is impossible. A good example would be faster than light speed travel. I'm old. I've seen everything from floor model radios to 98 inch flat screen TVs with Netflix etc. I would be afraid to say any technological advance is impossible.
Leadership equals wrecked ship. If you think you are leading my look behind you. You are alone. If you think I am leading you, You are lost.
Anybody ever wonder why the speed of light is represented by the constant c? It's because it's not the speed of light. Nobody other than optics researchers much care about the speed of light. What they do care about is the speed of causality (which, you'll note, starts with the letter 'c'). It just so happens that - in our universe - light (in a vacuum) travels at the speed of causality. If you can exceed the speed of causality, then guess what you've just invented? Not something as mundane as FTL travel. You've invented a Time Machine.
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So, now I have a question: One is in a medium with n > 1 looking out into a medium with a lesser n How does the external light appear to them from the point of view of their higher n medium?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Light (but not necessarily other particles) is affected by a move between media. You get effects such as refraction, total reflection, etc. If you want to see how the outer world looks when looking out from a medium where n > 1 to a medium where n == 1, dive into a pool and open your eyes. Experiment always trumps theory. :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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But that still doesn't completely rule out the Alcubierre drive[^]. We just need to find some exotic matter with a negative energy density. If everyone here could have a look down the back of their sofas, I'm sure we'd be able to find some. :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
I'm searching. Sofa so good. Getting my coat
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
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Have we the technology to observe faster particles?
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
For those that can collide with existing particles, yes. We'd have no way to determine their speed if they existed, but if they did and could collide with matter - then yes, one would notice an impact. ..what about all those planets that should have intelligent life? Any aliens passed by recently?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
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I'm searching. Sofa so good. Getting my coat
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
Almost as good as the "Sofa King" slogan - "They're Sofa King good". :D
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Light (but not necessarily other particles) is affected by a move between media. You get effects such as refraction, total reflection, etc. If you want to see how the outer world looks when looking out from a medium where n > 1 to a medium where n == 1, dive into a pool and open your eyes. Experiment always trumps theory. :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
Experiment always trumps theory.
So theory is fake news! :D
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
if moving at c to begin with, a photon entering a new medium with a higher index of refraction will, momentarily, exceed see.
Special Relativity does not forbid a photon (or other particle) moving at higher than the Speed of Light in a medium. It only forbid moving faster than the Speed of Light in vacuum. EDIT: As for the scissors' blades, the question is - what started them moving? The signal that the part of the blade closer to the join is rotating cannot move faster than the Speed of Light, so at any time - the blade will not be moving faster than light. Note that this problem involves acceleration (any point on the blade is moving in a circle), so it can't be solved by using Special Relativity.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
I thought it was only things with mass that cannot travel faster than the speed of light, but it is possible for things without mass to exceed the speed, even in a vacuum.
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Almost as good as the "Sofa King" slogan - "They're Sofa King good". :D
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Ok, that is an unreachable standard! :laugh:
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. I'm a puny punmaker.
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I thought it was only things with mass that cannot travel faster than the speed of light, but it is possible for things without mass to exceed the speed, even in a vacuum.
Nope. Massless objects (such as photons) are constrained to always move at the Speed of Light (when they are in vacuum). When is a different medium, such as water, they may move slower than the Speed of Light, but never faster.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
