"Hackathons" and related "hack" stuff
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In addition they usually have more money to pay for better lawyers...
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Winning by greater endurance.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
richp669 wrote:
There is no other industry where the employees do "homework" or their work for pleasure, so why is this encouraged in software?
You could start something there, I would start by organizing something for doctors: line up non-essential operations (ingrown toenails, varicose veins, hips/knees ...), a "slashathon" - doctors get to brag their skills and speed, patients who normally wait years treated sooner. Seriously though bosses should realise for some (if not most) people programming is a job, not every mechanic spends their weekend building super dream cars, not every builder adds bay windows to their own home, not every chef spends their days off creating new recipes - sure some do, most don't. (I know damn good mechanics that drive the lousiest cars, master builders that live in leaky drafty houses...) As to hackathons, that's junior programmer shit. Tell the boss you are busy weekends: kids sports, helping the parents, church, hiking, bomb building...
Sin tack ear lol Pressing the any key may be continuate
Lopatir wrote:
bomb building
Too crude. "Sorry boss, can't come. I have one of the few slots at the shooting range to train with my AR-50." Put one round on his desk. "Ok, boss, why don't you let it go through your head for a while?"
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
The laws vary from country to country, or even locally, but perhaps you should read this.[^] Even if you are absolutely innocent, it may still be a fight to prove that in court.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.Seems like what I wrote (but in more detail):
Quote:
1. I have done transactional work and litigation in and about these areas for nearly 30 years in Silicon Valley. Based on that experience, in practical terms, the risk you deal with in doing side work boils down to this: it is rare that an employer will make a claim to IP you develop on your own time and using your own resources but, when it does happen, its effect is pretty horrific. 2. California gives you more scope only because it has a law on the books that generally prohibits employers, on public policy grounds, from making claims to IP generated by employees working on their own time and using their own resources. 3. Even in California, however, an employee owes duties to his employer and one of those is that you don't misappropriate your employer's IP for your own use. This is why the California law says that you don't keep your side-project IP for yourself if it is in your employer's line of business or anticipated line of business. You can imagine the chaos that would result if any employee could state that, "no, that valuable IP that I came up with might have directly concerned what my employer was paying me to develop, but, in fact, I developed that particular key piece on my own time, etc." 4. In this sense, there is a common sense element to this area of law as applied in California. You typically will sense, without being told, whether the work you are doing on the side is capitalizing on the things your employer is doing or if it is truly unrelated.
..all pretty sensible stuff. As a contractor I am employed by my own company. Anything I do for my clients is theirs, anything else belongs to my company (provided I don't tread on my client's toes - that's just asking for trouble). If a client contract says otherwise, I don't sign it. Even if you're a full time employee, you should read your contract carefully before you sign it and raise issues with anything you don't like. If your (potential)employer won't accommodate your concerns, then look for another employer.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
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Seems like what I wrote (but in more detail):
Quote:
1. I have done transactional work and litigation in and about these areas for nearly 30 years in Silicon Valley. Based on that experience, in practical terms, the risk you deal with in doing side work boils down to this: it is rare that an employer will make a claim to IP you develop on your own time and using your own resources but, when it does happen, its effect is pretty horrific. 2. California gives you more scope only because it has a law on the books that generally prohibits employers, on public policy grounds, from making claims to IP generated by employees working on their own time and using their own resources. 3. Even in California, however, an employee owes duties to his employer and one of those is that you don't misappropriate your employer's IP for your own use. This is why the California law says that you don't keep your side-project IP for yourself if it is in your employer's line of business or anticipated line of business. You can imagine the chaos that would result if any employee could state that, "no, that valuable IP that I came up with might have directly concerned what my employer was paying me to develop, but, in fact, I developed that particular key piece on my own time, etc." 4. In this sense, there is a common sense element to this area of law as applied in California. You typically will sense, without being told, whether the work you are doing on the side is capitalizing on the things your employer is doing or if it is truly unrelated.
..all pretty sensible stuff. As a contractor I am employed by my own company. Anything I do for my clients is theirs, anything else belongs to my company (provided I don't tread on my client's toes - that's just asking for trouble). If a client contract says otherwise, I don't sign it. Even if you're a full time employee, you should read your contract carefully before you sign it and raise issues with anything you don't like. If your (potential)employer won't accommodate your concerns, then look for another employer.
Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.
Brent Jenkins wrote:
If your (potential)employer won't accommodate your concerns, then look for another employer.
Best advice, if you already see it coming. If not, it's good to have a convenient way out. In my case it would be my 'Padawan' who suddently, in a stroke of genius, did all the work. How do they want to prove that he did not do it?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
My former bosses also came with that Hackathon stuff and also expected us to come in on a sunday. If they pay us for results and skills, why do they see to it that we spend not a minute less than the weekly time in the office? And why are they much more generous when it is in their favor? It's right to fulfill the contract you have signed, but that works in both directions.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.It's not for me to say. It has to be a discussion between them, you, and a cricket bat.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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BTW: I am based in the UK... I was recently asked by my company why I had not signed up to their "Hack-a-thon" day. I was really peaved that someone would ask, and got a bit defensive (like us devs do). They asked why. So I gave them following answer: "I am a professional software developer, and don't think that stuff given the moniker 'hack' sits well with all I have tried to do in my (many years) of being a software developer." Yes the romantic idea that a company can feed you pizza and beer, and probably get some tangible "product" that could be marketed strikes me as odd as me (or you) would never see any recognition of the "product" dreamed of (financial or kudos). Some of the great "hacks"/ideas have happened in peoples "spare time" have resulted in multi-million companies (Facebook, Uber etc). Where would these be if they were given away on a "hack"? If I was smart/imaginative enough to come up with an "industry changing" product, I would setup my own business and do it there. I would probably do the same if it just made my life easier (think "Hive"). I have a family which i really like more than (unpaid) work, so it's a bit of a no brainer/insult when I am asked (and looked down upon and decline) to spend 24 hours at work and still do my day job! There is no other industry where the employees do "homework" or their work for pleasure, so why is this encouraged in software? I had friends that are builders, plumbers, bin-men, train drivers, airplane technicians, shop workers and bankers (yup wide circle) - none of these are asked to perform their day job in their spare time for no reward - so what's the crack? Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
You seem quite miffed. I have been at several Hackathons at Ericsson, by no standards a small company. The purpose of those were never to produce direct financial value. It was to have fun, and maybe (with a bit of luck) learn something new. It did not have to be directly applicable knowledge in my regular job. I did ask a colleague or two why they did not take part. I did that as one cool developer talking to another cool developer, and I was cool with whatever they told me. Of course, if I had been asked by a manager [or "manager"] why I had skipped a hackathon that would've made me miffed too! But in that place it was all relaxed and pleasant.
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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BTW: I am based in the UK... I was recently asked by my company why I had not signed up to their "Hack-a-thon" day. I was really peaved that someone would ask, and got a bit defensive (like us devs do). They asked why. So I gave them following answer: "I am a professional software developer, and don't think that stuff given the moniker 'hack' sits well with all I have tried to do in my (many years) of being a software developer." Yes the romantic idea that a company can feed you pizza and beer, and probably get some tangible "product" that could be marketed strikes me as odd as me (or you) would never see any recognition of the "product" dreamed of (financial or kudos). Some of the great "hacks"/ideas have happened in peoples "spare time" have resulted in multi-million companies (Facebook, Uber etc). Where would these be if they were given away on a "hack"? If I was smart/imaginative enough to come up with an "industry changing" product, I would setup my own business and do it there. I would probably do the same if it just made my life easier (think "Hive"). I have a family which i really like more than (unpaid) work, so it's a bit of a no brainer/insult when I am asked (and looked down upon and decline) to spend 24 hours at work and still do my day job! There is no other industry where the employees do "homework" or their work for pleasure, so why is this encouraged in software? I had friends that are builders, plumbers, bin-men, train drivers, airplane technicians, shop workers and bankers (yup wide circle) - none of these are asked to perform their day job in their spare time for no reward - so what's the crack? Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
Some of us also like to be able to sleep (or sleep comfortably and wash) and to eat decent food rather than poor quality pizza and drink energy drinks.
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BTW: I am based in the UK... I was recently asked by my company why I had not signed up to their "Hack-a-thon" day. I was really peaved that someone would ask, and got a bit defensive (like us devs do). They asked why. So I gave them following answer: "I am a professional software developer, and don't think that stuff given the moniker 'hack' sits well with all I have tried to do in my (many years) of being a software developer." Yes the romantic idea that a company can feed you pizza and beer, and probably get some tangible "product" that could be marketed strikes me as odd as me (or you) would never see any recognition of the "product" dreamed of (financial or kudos). Some of the great "hacks"/ideas have happened in peoples "spare time" have resulted in multi-million companies (Facebook, Uber etc). Where would these be if they were given away on a "hack"? If I was smart/imaginative enough to come up with an "industry changing" product, I would setup my own business and do it there. I would probably do the same if it just made my life easier (think "Hive"). I have a family which i really like more than (unpaid) work, so it's a bit of a no brainer/insult when I am asked (and looked down upon and decline) to spend 24 hours at work and still do my day job! There is no other industry where the employees do "homework" or their work for pleasure, so why is this encouraged in software? I had friends that are builders, plumbers, bin-men, train drivers, airplane technicians, shop workers and bankers (yup wide circle) - none of these are asked to perform their day job in their spare time for no reward - so what's the crack? Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
richp669 wrote:
Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
Yes there is. Like the hack-a-thon it is purely voluntary, it is called the global game jam, there are also local events as well. At these events you have 48 hours to create something playable that follows a particular theme or themes. At every game jam your idea is your own. it may be purchased by a larger company for further development, but you get credits. There are a number of hack-a-thons that work under the same premise. If the company you are working for lays claim to everything that an employee makes at a hack-a-thon then they are doing it wrong. Such a practice cripples creativity and fosters unwillingness to participate.
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It's unusual for salaried professionals to get overtime pay; they're paid according to their knowledge, skills, and achievements, not by the hour.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
As far as I know work is all about trading time for money. The worth of your time is measured in knowledge and skills. If I work more I expect to get more salary. And because I know quite a bit I expect to get paid a minimum amount of money per hour.
Best, Sander arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript SQL Server for C# Developers Succinctly Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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richp669 wrote:
Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
Yes there is. Like the hack-a-thon it is purely voluntary, it is called the global game jam, there are also local events as well. At these events you have 48 hours to create something playable that follows a particular theme or themes. At every game jam your idea is your own. it may be purchased by a larger company for further development, but you get credits. There are a number of hack-a-thons that work under the same premise. If the company you are working for lays claim to everything that an employee makes at a hack-a-thon then they are doing it wrong. Such a practice cripples creativity and fosters unwillingness to participate.
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richp669 wrote:
Yes but that's still software development... my point still stands.
I'm afraid it doesn't. The same can be said for any kind of engineer, software or otherwise. They are called pet projects. The only difference here is that one is formal and may involve a group, the other is informal and still may involve a group. It comes down purely to how it is run. The people whom I know that organise and run hack-a-thons, for software or hardware, do not claim ownership or anything that is created at said event. If your place of employment is trying to do that then they are in the wrong, and their products will suffer for it because there is not enough creative freedom. The game jam was simply an example of good practice.
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BTW: I am based in the UK... I was recently asked by my company why I had not signed up to their "Hack-a-thon" day. I was really peaved that someone would ask, and got a bit defensive (like us devs do). They asked why. So I gave them following answer: "I am a professional software developer, and don't think that stuff given the moniker 'hack' sits well with all I have tried to do in my (many years) of being a software developer." Yes the romantic idea that a company can feed you pizza and beer, and probably get some tangible "product" that could be marketed strikes me as odd as me (or you) would never see any recognition of the "product" dreamed of (financial or kudos). Some of the great "hacks"/ideas have happened in peoples "spare time" have resulted in multi-million companies (Facebook, Uber etc). Where would these be if they were given away on a "hack"? If I was smart/imaginative enough to come up with an "industry changing" product, I would setup my own business and do it there. I would probably do the same if it just made my life easier (think "Hive"). I have a family which i really like more than (unpaid) work, so it's a bit of a no brainer/insult when I am asked (and looked down upon and decline) to spend 24 hours at work and still do my day job! There is no other industry where the employees do "homework" or their work for pleasure, so why is this encouraged in software? I had friends that are builders, plumbers, bin-men, train drivers, airplane technicians, shop workers and bankers (yup wide circle) - none of these are asked to perform their day job in their spare time for no reward - so what's the crack? Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
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BTW: I am based in the UK... I was recently asked by my company why I had not signed up to their "Hack-a-thon" day. I was really peaved that someone would ask, and got a bit defensive (like us devs do). They asked why. So I gave them following answer: "I am a professional software developer, and don't think that stuff given the moniker 'hack' sits well with all I have tried to do in my (many years) of being a software developer." Yes the romantic idea that a company can feed you pizza and beer, and probably get some tangible "product" that could be marketed strikes me as odd as me (or you) would never see any recognition of the "product" dreamed of (financial or kudos). Some of the great "hacks"/ideas have happened in peoples "spare time" have resulted in multi-million companies (Facebook, Uber etc). Where would these be if they were given away on a "hack"? If I was smart/imaginative enough to come up with an "industry changing" product, I would setup my own business and do it there. I would probably do the same if it just made my life easier (think "Hive"). I have a family which i really like more than (unpaid) work, so it's a bit of a no brainer/insult when I am asked (and looked down upon and decline) to spend 24 hours at work and still do my day job! There is no other industry where the employees do "homework" or their work for pleasure, so why is this encouraged in software? I had friends that are builders, plumbers, bin-men, train drivers, airplane technicians, shop workers and bankers (yup wide circle) - none of these are asked to perform their day job in their spare time for no reward - so what's the crack? Are there any other industries that asks this of employees??
Like it or not, software development is not regulated by local laws. The reason is that it is a global market; we work long hours because it's the nature of the work that it takes a lot of time to complete a project, and there are always people somewhere willing to work those hours. Also, the barrier to entry is somewhat low compared to other high-paying jobs, and determining the actual skill level of a coder is difficult. This is in contrast to a chef, for example: the product is produced in a relatively short duration, is deliverable only within close proximity, and the skill of the chef can be determined fairly easily even by people with no training. In my opinion, the irony is that unions still exist to protect professionals like teachers, plumbers or electricians who cannot be outsourced, and yet would be ineffective for industries that are globalized like software development is.
