Olathe shooting
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Thanks for that. You should contact all the people who have done studies that all show having a firearm in the home drastically increases the chances of being killed by it outside of any "intruder" scenario, as clearly all of those studies are wrong as your single anecdote takes precedence over any wider study involving tens of thousands of homes over years of time.
There are "studies" for each and every thing that say anything and it's contrary, it verily depends ond the data skimming. Practical experience takes precedence anytime.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
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In fact, it doesn't - well except if you're into sport shooting, in that case you'll find yourself a bit poorer and with less free weekends. That's the whole point: a sane honest citizen (I know USA have poor control of gun ownership requisites) has little change of lifestyle owning a gun but, if willing, he's capable of defending himself. I used defending, because no matter where the police is or whter they will catch a criminal afer the fact: when you're in your home with your family and several armed intruders your life is in danger there and then, you have seconds while the Police is minutes away. Even if there is a shotting or mugging on the street in order to preserve your life and health and that of those around you you have seconds. That's why I support the right to bear arms - right that in my country (Italy) is choked more and more while gangs have full access to arms - illegal, they are delinquent, they give a damn about any law and still get their own weapons.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
Careful, we don't start the whole "a defensive weapon is an offensive weapon" thing, again -- I hate to see grown men cry.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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There are "studies" for each and every thing that say anything and it's contrary, it verily depends ond the data skimming. Practical experience takes precedence anytime.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
Cool, so show me some studies that show having a firearm in the house does not put you at a greater general risk from that firearm's mere presence.
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On a second thought, may be everyone should have a gun, given how it's percolated into the culture and society. May be then this criminal could have been shot into a cullender by the rest of the public in that bar. I'm going to agree that everyone should have it, or none.
Nah, just give 'em all to JSOP; he's qualified to use 'em.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Cool, so show me some studies that show having a firearm in the house does not put you at a greater general risk from that firearm's mere presence.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
having a firearm in the house does not put you at a greater general risk from that firearm's mere presence.
I own several firearms. None of them ever got up and shot anyone. I fail to see how the mere presence of a weapon may be a danger.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
having a firearm in the house does not put you at a greater general risk from that firearm's mere presence.
I own several firearms. None of them ever got up and shot anyone. I fail to see how the mere presence of a weapon may be a danger.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
I see you're dodging the question so I'll just leave it there :)
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Careful, we don't start the whole "a defensive weapon is an offensive weapon" thing, again -- I hate to see grown men cry.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
It is: a weapon is a weapon is a weapon. The defense, offense or sport are done by the people holding them - kitchen knives are the tools used most often to kill someone. Pickaxes (a man killed 4 people on the street with a pickaxe several years ago in Italy), shovels, wooden bars, scissors, hammers, screwdrivers, stones, vehicles... they are not even weapons but are easily the most used tools to injure and kill. A weapon equalizes an engineer with too few time and interest in buffing itself and a street thug double its size. It also equalizes a man and a group of men, eliminating the need of traveling in groups (highly advised in most part of the town). Take out weapon and you have only police, thugs and victims - and when police forces are the only one authorized to use force they become plain tyrants worst than the criminal themselves.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
us
Not all Americans. Do not consider all. There are persons like Ian Grillot who still believe in humanity and thats why these people are great and not the extremist.
Cheers,
SMPMy Recent Article
Main Method in C#I share with you the opinion about Ian Grillot. People like him restore faith in humanity, and make this world a better place to live in.
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Thanks for that. You should contact all the people who have done studies that all show having a firearm in the home drastically increases the chances of being killed by it outside of any "intruder" scenario, as clearly all of those studies are wrong as your single anecdote takes precedence over any wider study involving tens of thousands of homes over years of time.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
who have done studies that all show having a firearm in the home drastically increases the chance
That is just a probability. If you keep your gun safe, then that probability approaches 0. I think that is his point. Just because the statistics include a bunch of boneheads does not mean that it is more dangerous for someone who is safe.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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On a second thought, may be everyone should have a gun, given how it's percolated into the culture and society. May be then this criminal could have been shot into a cullender by the rest of the public in that bar. I'm going to agree that everyone should have it, or none.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
may be everyone should have a gun,
There are a few cities in the US where it is required by law to own a gun. Of course, they don't enforce that law.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
who have done studies that all show having a firearm in the home drastically increases the chance
That is just a probability. If you keep your gun safe, then that probability approaches 0. I think that is his point. Just because the statistics include a bunch of boneheads does not mean that it is more dangerous for someone who is safe.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
That's why I never wear my seatbelt...seatbelts are for boneheads, not people like me who are safe ;)
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That's why I never wear my seatbelt...seatbelts are for boneheads, not people like me who are safe ;)
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
may be everyone should have a gun,
There are a few cities in the US where it is required by law to own a gun. Of course, they don't enforce that law.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Of course: owning a weapon should still be subjected to choice, otherwise it could really prove dangerous. Lucky the ones that hve that choice, in Europe they're trying to take it away from us - and look how well it served to France, as of now the nation with the longest streak of armed attacks towards the citizens cattle.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
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Your analogy fails, but I think you know that. ;)
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
No analogy is 100% perfect, you can either accept the spirit of it, or if the analogy proves you wrong you can focus on why the analogy isn't perfect and focus on that as an argument instead. But I think you know that :)
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No analogy is 100% perfect, you can either accept the spirit of it, or if the analogy proves you wrong you can focus on why the analogy isn't perfect and focus on that as an argument instead. But I think you know that :)
OK, so you won't admit that it was wrong? And now you're going to force me to spend all this time explaining to you and all of posterity why it is wrong? You owe me a Snickers bar. ;) Real simple. If you own a gun you can be in control of what happens to it. I.E. lock it in a safe that only you have access to. Therefore, you are in complete control of what happens. However, when you are driving, you are not in control of what happens to you. There, done. Geesh. :-D
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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OK, so you won't admit that it was wrong? And now you're going to force me to spend all this time explaining to you and all of posterity why it is wrong? You owe me a Snickers bar. ;) Real simple. If you own a gun you can be in control of what happens to it. I.E. lock it in a safe that only you have access to. Therefore, you are in complete control of what happens. However, when you are driving, you are not in control of what happens to you. There, done. Geesh. :-D
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Why would I admit it was wrong? If it was wrong I wouldn't have used it. However as I have already said you are focusing on where the analogy differs rather than the concept I was drawing attention to as you can construct a straw man argument from that.
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Why would I admit it was wrong? If it was wrong I wouldn't have used it. However as I have already said you are focusing on where the analogy differs rather than the concept I was drawing attention to as you can construct a straw man argument from that.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
you are focusing on where the analogy differs rather than the concept I was drawing attention to
What concept are you drawing attention to?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
you are focusing on where the analogy differs rather than the concept I was drawing attention to
What concept are you drawing attention to?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
That an individual's self-reporting that there is no way they will come foul of a problem because they simply consider themselves "different" carries no weight at all in the general scheme of things and most certainly does not invalidate the general principal that a problem does indeed exist. Anyway, I'll leave you to your belief that "proof by example" is not a fallacious argument.
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That an individual's self-reporting that there is no way they will come foul of a problem because they simply consider themselves "different" carries no weight at all in the general scheme of things and most certainly does not invalidate the general principal that a problem does indeed exist. Anyway, I'll leave you to your belief that "proof by example" is not a fallacious argument.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
because they simply consider themselves "different" carries no weight at all in the general scheme of things
I disagree. If you actually look into the details of those surveys you'll find that most often the gun was not locked up. So, you are misrepresenting the studies. So, what you should say, is that studies show that if you do not keep your gun safe, then you are at more risk by having the gun in your home than you are of intruders. That is the crucial part you are missing.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
because they simply consider themselves "different" carries no weight at all in the general scheme of things
I disagree. If you actually look into the details of those surveys you'll find that most often the gun was not locked up. So, you are misrepresenting the studies. So, what you should say, is that studies show that if you do not keep your gun safe, then you are at more risk by having the gun in your home than you are of intruders. That is the crucial part you are missing.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Yeah that's why I don't wear a seatbelt. Those studies that show it's safer only cover those who have a crash. I don't crash my car so I don't need to wear one. See, me simply stating that I am not affected invalidates all scientific studies and means you can not use their results.