Vinyl Records
-
DACs can be surprisingly good but ultimately analogue will always beat digital when it comes to sound.
Slogans aren't solutions.
-
Digital music does not have to be clipped. The general public think loud is better so we have the loudness wars, this pushes down the dynamic range and makes the music sound crap. Early CD's sound much better than the newly mastered stuff.
The Presence on a well recorded CD is astonishing. In interesting analogy between movies and recorded music. Lots of remakes - but not as good as the original. Concentrating on special effects instead of quality. OH BRAVE NEW WORLD!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
-
DACs can be surprisingly good but ultimately analogue will always beat digital when it comes to sound.
Slogans aren't solutions.
PeejayAdams wrote:
... but ultimately analogue will always beat digital when it comes to sound.
Until that annoying crackle or rhythmic pop starts up, or the needle comes to that little scratch and skips half the song.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
-
PeejayAdams wrote:
... but ultimately analogue will always beat digital when it comes to sound.
Until that annoying crackle or rhythmic pop starts up, or the needle comes to that little scratch and skips half the song.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
Doesn't happen if you look after your records!
Slogans aren't solutions.
-
I was in a charity shop the other day and a record (vinyl) cover caught my eye. It was this Bert Kaempfert | Album | A Swingin’ Safari[^] which I recognized as an album my Dad had owned in the sixties. What I remembered was that the music was very corny but the recording quality good. I checked the disc and it looked almost unplayed so I bought it for $2. I took it home, put in on the turntable and was amazed. Lots of things have come a long way in 50 years but in my opinion an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi. I am now playing Dire Straits, Love over gold and that sounds pretty good too. The record store label from where I bought it states 5-10-82 which was just on the cusp of cd's. Looks like a bottle of red and some chicken wings tonight - oh and of course dig out some more old records.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
The only thing I miss from my vinyl days is the large format art-work. And that, at that time, had not enough money for a rega planar turntable.
I'd rather be phishing!
-
W∴ Balboos wrote:
inyl Better? An absolute absurdity on its own.
Not so. Digitised music is clipped and doesnt have the attack you get in an anlog reproduction. It is also less subtle, and lacks depth.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Digitised music is clipped and doesnt have the attack you get in an anlog reproduction. It is also less subtle, and lacks depth.
That has nothing to do with it coming to you in digital format. It has everything to do with songs being over-compressed in the [The Loudness Wars](http://www.npr.org/2009/12/31/122114058/the-loudness-wars-why-music-sounds-worse)[^]
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
-
pwasser wrote:
Lots of things have come a long way in 50 years but in my opinion an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi.
And guitar played through a transistor amp just isnt anywhere near as good as played through a valve amp. Some technologies do peak. As for records, yes, analog. The depth and richness, and subtelty is entirely missing from even CDs (and an mp3 is heavilly compressed CD even, so its even worse).
Lossy digital compression is not the same as audio compression; lossy digital compression does not affect the dynamic range of the audio signal, audio compression does. Two completely unrelated animals. Old vinyl records were produced before audio compression was used so heavily as a technique to increase the apparent loudness of the recording. This is done in the mastering stage of the recording. A heavily compressed recording can then be put on any medium, be it digital or vinyl. I think there's a lot more nostalgia than actual audio quality behind the claim that vinyl sounds better than digital.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
-
I was in a charity shop the other day and a record (vinyl) cover caught my eye. It was this Bert Kaempfert | Album | A Swingin’ Safari[^] which I recognized as an album my Dad had owned in the sixties. What I remembered was that the music was very corny but the recording quality good. I checked the disc and it looked almost unplayed so I bought it for $2. I took it home, put in on the turntable and was amazed. Lots of things have come a long way in 50 years but in my opinion an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi. I am now playing Dire Straits, Love over gold and that sounds pretty good too. The record store label from where I bought it states 5-10-82 which was just on the cusp of cd's. Looks like a bottle of red and some chicken wings tonight - oh and of course dig out some more old records.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
I wish I still had my vinyl collection, the quality is 1000 times better then CDs.
Someone's therapist knows all about you!
-
I was in a charity shop the other day and a record (vinyl) cover caught my eye. It was this Bert Kaempfert | Album | A Swingin’ Safari[^] which I recognized as an album my Dad had owned in the sixties. What I remembered was that the music was very corny but the recording quality good. I checked the disc and it looked almost unplayed so I bought it for $2. I took it home, put in on the turntable and was amazed. Lots of things have come a long way in 50 years but in my opinion an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi. I am now playing Dire Straits, Love over gold and that sounds pretty good too. The record store label from where I bought it states 5-10-82 which was just on the cusp of cd's. Looks like a bottle of red and some chicken wings tonight - oh and of course dig out some more old records.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
pwasser wrote:
an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi.
that's probably true
-
One major difference from "then", meaning the 60's and 70's to "now" is that an old-time audio systems typically a small fraction of the THD (total harmonic distortion) that not only acceptable, but even common place in the "now". I've seen modern equipment rated at 5% - even 10% THD (such as boom boxes), and earbuds? Give me a break. My system was 0.5%. An audiophilic friends' system clocked in at 0.2%. Even now, suddenly there's rediscovery of over-the-ear phones - like they always used to be. Only then, the sound quality between those big cushiony phones was extraordinary. Vinyl Better? An absolute absurdity on its own. However, the current digital is geared towards the vast armies of the hearing-impaired identified by the constant wires protruding from their ears. Converted vinyl should sound exactly like the original - or more correctly, should sound like it. that, however, assumes a true conversion. HiFi had a meaning: High Fidelity. Fidelity implies trustworthy accuracy. That once was a goal. Now, it's a four-letter acronym, the fidelity of it's meeting now gone. Among my first few CD's, Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker. The triangle played in one movement was so real it was astonishing. That, of course, was when CD's were trying to outperform the current popular media. Cassette and eight-track tapes were designed for cars - but became the central audio medium for many. That was an early nail in the coffin. You're living in an age where jerks will actually pay big bucks for tickets to a live concert - where the (alleged) artists lip-synch! If anything's wrong with digital, it's that the consumers accept crap.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Quote:
eight-track tapes were designed for cars - but became the central audio medium for many
In my youth, I volunteered as a local Hospital DJ running the "graveyard shift" (this name was not to be mentioned on air to the patients). The system used eight-tracks to broadcast to the bedside headphones and into the nurses' break-rooms. I had a bank of six eight-track players and shelves of eight-track cartridges to choose from. Not a computer in sight! Being the night shift, I was basically playing stuff for the nurses - often/usually by request. It was a great way to get dates! I remember how good the quality of those eight-tracks were. Way better than compact cassettes. It's a pity that CC took over at that time. These days I play music from MP3s but never use in-the-ear headphones, only regular speakers or good quality over-the-ear headphones and am quite happy with the quality.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
-
Lossy digital compression is not the same as audio compression; lossy digital compression does not affect the dynamic range of the audio signal, audio compression does. Two completely unrelated animals. Old vinyl records were produced before audio compression was used so heavily as a technique to increase the apparent loudness of the recording. This is done in the mastering stage of the recording. A heavily compressed recording can then be put on any medium, be it digital or vinyl. I think there's a lot more nostalgia than actual audio quality behind the claim that vinyl sounds better than digital.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
CDs are very sharp, but I have to say, and I listen to a lot of live music, that vinyl captures the essence better than a CD. There is a depth to the sound with vinyl, a realistic quality, that is different to CD. Perhaps it is subjective, perhaps it is imagined, but thats the way if 'feels' to me.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Digitised music is clipped and doesnt have the attack you get in an anlog reproduction. It is also less subtle, and lacks depth.
That has nothing to do with it coming to you in digital format. It has everything to do with songs being over-compressed in the [The Loudness Wars](http://www.npr.org/2009/12/31/122114058/the-loudness-wars-why-music-sounds-worse)[^]
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
Could well be, but I remain to be convinced. For example. Take a live band that uses a drum machine for the backing. Now compare that to a live drummer in a group. You are walking down the road, and you hear the music, the first sounds like a recording, the latter like a like band. It has punch, power, that is the attack I am talking about, and it stand outs a mile. Same with valve vs digitised guitar amps (with effects). The digital version is soft, lacks the impact. It is just how I feel it. :)
-
Doesn't happen if you look after your records!
Slogans aren't solutions.
Not everyone has the ability to care for their records like that, especially not a teen or twenty-something I and my friends were back in the Days of Vinyl. And, stuff happens. To everyone.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
-
The Presence on a well recorded CD is astonishing. In interesting analogy between movies and recorded music. Lots of remakes - but not as good as the original. Concentrating on special effects instead of quality. OH BRAVE NEW WORLD!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I remember being quite interested in the [Barry Diament Audio](http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com) website, which talked about recording techniques vs. result. Some of his samples absolutely blew me away. (The albums can be clicked on on that page, for samples.)
Sudden Sun Death Syndrome (SSDS) is a very real concern which we should be raising awareness of. 156 billion suns die every year before they're just 1 billion years old. While the military are doing their part, it simply isn't enough to make the amount of nukes needed to save those poor stars. - TWI2T3D (Reddit)
-
DACs can be surprisingly good but ultimately analogue will always beat digital when it comes to sound.
Slogans aren't solutions.
Crackle, wow, flutter, hiss. Yes. Vastly superior. :laugh:
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
-
I was in a charity shop the other day and a record (vinyl) cover caught my eye. It was this Bert Kaempfert | Album | A Swingin’ Safari[^] which I recognized as an album my Dad had owned in the sixties. What I remembered was that the music was very corny but the recording quality good. I checked the disc and it looked almost unplayed so I bought it for $2. I took it home, put in on the turntable and was amazed. Lots of things have come a long way in 50 years but in my opinion an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi. I am now playing Dire Straits, Love over gold and that sounds pretty good too. The record store label from where I bought it states 5-10-82 which was just on the cusp of cd's. Looks like a bottle of red and some chicken wings tonight - oh and of course dig out some more old records.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
I have a whole 1m high pile of my late dad's jazz LP's, some dating back as far as the 50s. I still want to catalogue and digitise them for sharing with jazz lovers.
Immanentize the Eschaton!
-
I have a whole 1m high pile of my late dad's jazz LP's, some dating back as far as the 50s. I still want to catalogue and digitise them for sharing with jazz lovers.
Immanentize the Eschaton!
I've had a go at this and have not been too happy with the results. To do it well one needs records in very good condition and high quality equipment. It is certainly worth doing. A metre high pile of records would be too daunting for me.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
-
I was in a charity shop the other day and a record (vinyl) cover caught my eye. It was this Bert Kaempfert | Album | A Swingin’ Safari[^] which I recognized as an album my Dad had owned in the sixties. What I remembered was that the music was very corny but the recording quality good. I checked the disc and it looked almost unplayed so I bought it for $2. I took it home, put in on the turntable and was amazed. Lots of things have come a long way in 50 years but in my opinion an mp3 played on a headset just doesn't come close to a record played through a good hifi. I am now playing Dire Straits, Love over gold and that sounds pretty good too. The record store label from where I bought it states 5-10-82 which was just on the cusp of cd's. Looks like a bottle of red and some chicken wings tonight - oh and of course dig out some more old records.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
The main reason for sounding good is that todays music is over-compressed. Read about the "loudness wars" and you will see that most of the stuff that came after 95 is pure crap. But luckily there is a new broadcasting standard spreading on which all over-compressed music sounds like crap, where the old un-compressed sounds like the best thing after the bread.
-
I've had a go at this and have not been too happy with the results. To do it well one needs records in very good condition and high quality equipment. It is certainly worth doing. A metre high pile of records would be too daunting for me.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
I have digitized a few hundred vinyl records: Some kinds of noise can easily be filtered out. If you use a reasonably good wave editor (I use Steinberg WaveLab), it comes with a set of high quality filters for removing noise from dust specs, high frequency "tape hiss" (some of it is really from the tape - it fades out at the end of a track and comes back at the start of the next track, but some of it is from the vinyl surface). But the distortion that has been added by wear, playing the record several hundred times, that cannot be removed. In my student days, I could play my favorite records a couple times a day, and some of them were favorites for years! In addition to the distortion, sometimes a different kind of lower frequency hiss builds up, modulated like a rumble (but with much more medium range frequencies than "real" rumble), which no filter I know of can remove very successfully. So those vinyl records that were only semi-favorites, or below, has been transfered quite successfully. For those old favorites that has not been reissued on CD I must simply accept to listen to the music rather than to the sound (quality).
-
W∴ Balboos wrote:
inyl Better? An absolute absurdity on its own.
Not so. Digitised music is clipped and doesnt have the attack you get in an anlog reproduction. It is also less subtle, and lacks depth.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Digitised music is clipped and doesnt have the attack you get in an anlog reproduction. It is also less subtle, and lacks depth.
With 96 dB dynamic range there is certainly no need to clip the signal. I have seen the waveforms from thousands of ripped CD tracks, but never seen any clipping. I believe that lots of people really don't know what clipping is like, but (ab)use the term to refer to high dynamic compression. If you display the waveform image to fit inside your screen window, it looks like a brick. But it does not bang its head into the ceiling, and if you expand it to see the curve peaks one by one, they are smooth and round. Of course the sound quality may be crap due to the compression. But clipping sounds quite different.
