offer vs counter offer
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
"A change is as good as a rest", as my old Grannie used to say. I think I'll start writing a Grannie column...
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
cp-andy wrote:
Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet.
cp-andy wrote:
What do you guys suggest now.
Have to ask yourself what caused you to look elsewhere and have those conditions changed? I have only once accepted a counter offer once and it was because I didn't want to leave the company to begin with. In that situation I just wanted something that allowed me to move out of state and be closer to my parents as they get older. I never suspected that my current employer would be able to offer that until I gave them my reasons for wanting to leave. If you are searching for quality of work and pay then I would recommend against taking the counter offer. In all my years of watching those happen I have never seen one last that long.
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
I in general don't take a counter offer unless its a written contract etc. Counter offer means, the company already knew that you had once decided to move on and when the situation becomes too fluid, they wont think twice to outsource your work. But moving on to new company guarantees pay hike but uncertain environment. Think on both offer, sleep on it and then act.
cheers,
Super
------------------------------------------ Too much of good is bad,mix some evil in it
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
It cost's them nothing to throw a title at you (perhaps they saw/heard about your wishlist), but is the tital true or the same {more] work with a new hat. You've intended you want to leave, with that in their minds will they allow you any real decision making power (i.e. the CMS)? Their thoughts will be: 'What if he changes everything and leaves anyway?' Typical response: 'he may recommend, but not make decisions without our approval.', which translates to 'good idea, we will consider that in our next senior meeting.' (i.e. 'no.')
Sin tack the any key okay
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This is always a hard decision. I once made the right call and once f*cked-up beyond the dreams of even the most incapable Western Government; but that's another story. My criteria on the counter offer are based on when did you last get a review in your current job. Not taking this into account is what screwed me. If they recently reviewed your job and your salary and/or role remained pretty much the same, why are they doing it now? If it's a case of you'll do the same job with a posher title and more money, is it worth staying? I personally take the opinion that in this scenario, if the recently ailed to promote you or give you a pay rise what is to say they will continue to incentivise you after you agree t stay. You can make this call once with any company. Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving? For the same or similar money, I think it is wise to stay with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't. Unless the devil happens to be the kind of person who even Satan questions on their morality. Hope this helps.
veni bibi saltavi
The current company is good but the problem is that they have outsourced lot of the development work already. All the apps were already outsourced, but now they have moved all the sites to proprietary CMS due to which few of the colleagues already left. Note that they did not listen to advice of tech dir who got really annoyed and left the company. It was the same reason, I decided to leave but now they are assuring there will be more dev work etc etc.
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving?
Well there is always a risk in new job. They are extremely slow in taking decision and offered a role with three months trial. They use trial word over probation which sounded bit negative to start with. Work wise their IT is internal and they have some good projects to count on. But it will be totally programming job whereas if I stay, it will be both managerial and programming which somewhat aligns with my ultimate goal that is to move to management.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Out of principle I don't take counter offers
This is solid advice. Most people and companies find that within 1 year of accepting counter offer, both parties are more than done with the situation. There are a lot of stats about negatives of accepting counter offers. Of course, each situation is unique. Here's an article about why it is not good to accept them: Why You Should Never Accept A Counter-offer (Forbes mag)[^]
Great article, says exactly what I was to lazy to write myself. :-)
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I in general don't take a counter offer unless its a written contract etc. Counter offer means, the company already knew that you had once decided to move on and when the situation becomes too fluid, they wont think twice to outsource your work. But moving on to new company guarantees pay hike but uncertain environment. Think on both offer, sleep on it and then act.
cheers,
Super
------------------------------------------ Too much of good is bad,mix some evil in it
Indeed - why did it take you wanting to leave for them to make that offer? Would they have made it otherwise? Move on.
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
Something to consider... I've seen companies counter an offer because they were caught off guard by the guy's 2 week notice, then, when they find a suitable replacement, they found a reason to terminate him. Giving notice says to your employer "I'm not happy here so I'm leaving". If you take their counter and stay, they might then be thinking "What happens when he's no happy again, or some better offer comes around again". You're a liability now. When you give notice, don't look back.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
A counter-offer is only so they can keep you around until they find a replacement.
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Out of principle I don't take counter offers. If they didn't realise your value until you gave your notice...
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
And they'll start looking for your replacement anyway since you've shown that you're disloyal.
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Out of principle I don't take counter offers. If they didn't realise your value until you gave your notice...
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
I accepted a counter-offer once, brought me up to the salary I was moving to (large increase). Six months later I left anyway for a third company, as the money didn't fix the problems I had with the original company -- if anything they got worse. I went through a lot of unnecessary stress before cutting my losses and leaving. Make a list of pros and cons for staying and leaving. Look at the list critically, leave emotion at the door (if you can). Once you've mentally processed everything, take a few days (or more) to reflect on things. Listen to your "gut", as others have recommended. IMO our "gut" is our subconscious talking to us -- it knows more than we consciously do. I collect facts and let my subconscious ruminate. One final thought: Make sure that going to a less technical role is what you want. I moved out of technical work into project management and business analysis. Today I'm back playing with my Tinker Toys (programmer/analyst and team lead) and I'm a lot happier. :laugh: Side thought -- is "gut feeling" American slang, or is it more general across English speaking countries?
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
Another option is to take the new job and counter the counter offer with being a "consultant" to help maintain the projects you worked on and eventually train someone to take over. My brother tried this and ended up collecting two paychecks for almost two years.
Brent
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
cp-andy wrote:
If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced.
I'm not really sure what you'll be managing, then. Seems to me the outsourcers are going to have people to manage whatever projects your company throws at them. That sounds like a significant chance of a dead-end path. Lump of salt, though, I can't think of many positions I'd want less than some sort of management thing.
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
My experience is that it is hard to make the jump out of high paying development into management. Management will have a higher upside salary, but it is managing PEOPLE. Some folks are good at this. Some actually like it, but it is significantly different from a dev role. If this is your personality, the counter sounds like a good move. Know your personality and know what you love to do. I still miss full time dev, but as an entrepreneur running a company, I had to make the jump to 90% management.
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And they'll start looking for your replacement anyway since you've shown that you're disloyal.
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
Move on to the new job. Trust me. Everyones advice is right on about that. There was ONE time where it kinda bit me. They asked me to stay, only promised exciting things, and reminded me I would lose my stock options. I left, for a similar raise. And 6 months later (they were in talks when I left), the product I had just created for them, was packaged and sold for $5 million as a division. BTW, that group is now being sold for 45 Million. And has been profitable all the way. That was probably the best case scenario. But honestly, I did the math. My stock options would have netted me only $120,000 before taxes. So, WOW. But think about that. I was making more per year, every year... When I look back, I am still good with leaving. Because I was TIRED of working on THAT technology, within that framework.
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
I was just watching Frozen Planet, and you remind me of like this person that is stuck on this ship in the middle of the Antartic Ocean in the middle of a storm in the middle the winter, wondering whether you should stick it out with the Captain or just smile and say Adios! Sr Software Engineer with 35% pay hike gets my thumbs up. Keep telling your story to others, and maybe it'll become advice you can share.
Remain Calm & Continue To Google
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^] As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision. I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year. What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
Don't EVER accept a counter-offer once you have stated you intentions to leave. The company is going to give you what you want until they find your replacement and then you will be canned. I've seen this scenario happen to people time and time again. Do NOT do it!
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The current company is good but the problem is that they have outsourced lot of the development work already. All the apps were already outsourced, but now they have moved all the sites to proprietary CMS due to which few of the colleagues already left. Note that they did not listen to advice of tech dir who got really annoyed and left the company. It was the same reason, I decided to leave but now they are assuring there will be more dev work etc etc.
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving?
Well there is always a risk in new job. They are extremely slow in taking decision and offered a role with three months trial. They use trial word over probation which sounded bit negative to start with. Work wise their IT is internal and they have some good projects to count on. But it will be totally programming job whereas if I stay, it will be both managerial and programming which somewhat aligns with my ultimate goal that is to move to management.
The counter offer is made for two reasons... 1 - to stop a competitor getting your know how. 2 - to give your current employer a chance to "download" your know how before you leave. Don't fall for it.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.