BA offshored 700 IT jobs last year..
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I always wonder why they not are hiring the senior managment from these offshore markets. I bet these managers would be really cheaper and not worser than the actual managment. BTW: flipping a coin isnt the worst decision process. :~
Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany
KarstenK wrote:
I always wonder why they not are hiring the senior managment from these offshore markets.
That is extraordinarily profound. (+)
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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No, but uncle Matt from Nebrohoma read on the interwebz that BA offshored their work two years ago, and that's all he needs to know.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Nebrohoma
Neither reference is KSS. Hybridized like that is bordering unholy!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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RyanDev wrote:
and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
So the process went well, but you didnt actually end up saving any money? :wtf: Did you work out why?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
but you didnt actually end up saving any money?
Oh, no, we did. I'm saying that in general, it has not worked out for most people. I was agreeing with your original statement as a general statement.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
but you didnt actually end up saving any money?
Oh, no, we did. I'm saying that in general, it has not worked out for most people. I was agreeing with your original statement as a general statement.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Ah, OK. I think part of the drive to offshore these days is also the sheer lack of skills in the west. This has been solved to a large degree by massive immigration of IT workers into Canada and the US (in Europe many have come from Eastern Europe by the way (and they are actually good engineers, cultural very similar and easy to work with)) but not entirely, and the demand for IT has become so huge in the west that in fact offshoring hasnt made as big an impact on the jobs market as might have been expected. In fact sometimes it is beneficial as an expert is often needed at the end to come in and clean up the mess.
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Kabaam! 2 days of complete screw up costing god knows how many millions in compensation. Offshoring, it is not worth it. The quality goes through the floor.
Got home last night at 2330 local time (Zürich) a very tired, sweaty and annoyed man after leaving Dublin at 0900 local on Sunday. BA need their butts kicked. When are we going to stop tolerating these crappy practices from people who are supposed to be leaders in our economies? feeling very anarchic right now.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
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Got home last night at 2330 local time (Zürich) a very tired, sweaty and annoyed man after leaving Dublin at 0900 local on Sunday. BA need their butts kicked. When are we going to stop tolerating these crappy practices from people who are supposed to be leaders in our economies? feeling very anarchic right now.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
You should have driven! :)
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You wouldnt believe the crap I have seen coming from an offshore team. It was a driver. They had absoloutely no idea what they were doing, and cobbled together two code samples from the WDK. It was as unstable as shit. Had as many variants as there were products (i was that closely coupled to the hardware). Their git layout was a mess, their testing was ineffective, and their understanding of the technical domain and tools almost zero. And a big, I mean massive, global company relied on them for this driver. Needless to say that I, as a contractor, though expensive, was much cheaper than an entire office offshore, staffed by at least 6 to 10 people, and produced, in a few months, a better driver. After the dev cycle was complete it was handed over to this offshore team to maintain! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: What a dumbass decision. Oh well, it is their loss.
Sounds pretty typical and it happens because boards put bean counters or "professional managers" in charge of IT - always doomed to failure. The best places I have worked at have had techies in charge of tech - nothing else works. Perhaps this thread should be sent to the dumbass in charge at BA. :) Side note: I have sworn by BA for years but no longer - American Airlines or Air New Zealand have a far better product and BA make it next to impossible to use Avios to book flights.
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Fight Club already explained this.. :laugh:
Quote:
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
British Airways, same thing.. if the cost of this is less than the cost of having IT based in the UK, then they're still winning.
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
That only works until the shareholders get pissed off with the reputational hit which impacts their dividends.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Did you manage the workers directly at all?
Yes. And we had a phone call everyday and followed the parts of SCRUM that I liked. I also gave them very clear design specifications. They did a really good job. I think you need to set standards and move on if they can't meet them. Just like you would if you hired a developer. I think it is funny in a worldwide website for most people to complain about offshoring. Like I said, you would be offshoring to me and I to you. So,all offshoring can't be that bad. :-D
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Interesting: I have managed offshore teams in India and what I found was that I had to spend a disproportionate amount of my time on video/voice calls hand-holding and instructing; things I do not have to do with locally sourced teams (even with working from home becoming the norm). I also managed a team some years ago that was split between the US and the UK - no problems at all. The problem is really one of relationships (and time zones) - when I have met and got to know team members face-to-face the issues generally diminish; this worked really well at one company where each of the offshore team members spent a month in the home office.
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That's tomorrow's problem. Today it's champagne, cigars and a large cash withdrawl! :laugh:
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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That only works until the shareholders get pissed off with the reputational hit which impacts their dividends.
That's tomorrow's problem. Today it's champagne, cigars and a large cash withdrawl! :laugh:
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.