Infinite Universe?
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Forogar wrote:
Assuming the Universe is infinite
Fortunately the universe is not. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
Fortunately the universe is not.
True. I read the book. Where the Universe Ends, by Shel Silverstein.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Forogar wrote:
Assuming the Universe is infinite
Fortunately the universe is not. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
Fortunately the universe is not
So good to see a Scientist who is committed to making sense. The Universe cannot be infinite since no physical thing could ever be infinite. Infinite is simply a philosophical concept until you get to metaphysical. So, science cannot deal with infinite. I'm glad we've had this discussion.
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Forogar wrote:
Assuming the Universe is infinite
Fortunately the universe is not. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Possibly not. In which case, what is beyond the edges of this non-infinite universe? More universes? If so, what demarcates the edges of this one and the edges of the others? Can they not all be part of a larger universe? PS. My finite brain has just thrown a "Value out of range Exception"!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Fortunately the universe is not
So good to see a Scientist who is committed to making sense. The Universe cannot be infinite since no physical thing could ever be infinite. Infinite is simply a philosophical concept until you get to metaphysical. So, science cannot deal with infinite. I'm glad we've had this discussion.
raddevus wrote:
So, science cannot deal with infinite.
Indeed. One of the reasons the number zero was not adopted by many cultures and banned by various religions is that the number zero leads to the problem of infinity, and only God can be infinite. That said, on theological grounds, since God is infinite, and infinite God could only exist in a finite universe, so I retract my statement that the universe is not infinite. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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raddevus wrote:
So, science cannot deal with infinite.
Indeed. One of the reasons the number zero was not adopted by many cultures and banned by various religions is that the number zero leads to the problem of infinity, and only God can be infinite. That said, on theological grounds, since God is infinite, and infinite God could only exist in a finite universe, so I retract my statement that the universe is not infinite. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
infinite God could only exist in a finite universe
Wow, you took this much further than you probably want to since you are going to get all kinds of comments now. However, I must mention that you said, "could only exist in"...which was a limitation or constraint and I'm not sure why there would be one. :) - This question, of course, will cause this thread to be the first infinite thing found in a finite Universe. :laugh:
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Forogar wrote:
Assuming the Universe is infinite
Fortunately the universe is not. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Einstein wasn't sure: "Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe" (Allegedly; it quoted in the book Gestalt Therapy Verbatim by Frederick S. Perls, but the attribution is disputed)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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raddevus wrote:
So, science cannot deal with infinite.
Indeed. One of the reasons the number zero was not adopted by many cultures and banned by various religions is that the number zero leads to the problem of infinity, and only God can be infinite. That said, on theological grounds, since God is infinite, and infinite God could only exist in a finite universe, so I retract my statement that the universe is not infinite. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Fortunately the universe is not
So good to see a Scientist who is committed to making sense. The Universe cannot be infinite since no physical thing could ever be infinite. Infinite is simply a philosophical concept until you get to metaphysical. So, science cannot deal with infinite. I'm glad we've had this discussion.
raddevus wrote:
science cannot deal with infinite.
The sum of all positive integer numbers from 1 to infinity is -1/12. Proven by science :)
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Possibly not. In which case, what is beyond the edges of this non-infinite universe? More universes? If so, what demarcates the edges of this one and the edges of the others? Can they not all be part of a larger universe? PS. My finite brain has just thrown a "Value out of range Exception"!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Perhaps more realistically or at least more philosophically pleasing, a finite universe could still be unbounded, for example if it is a 3-ball or 3-torus or something like that. That would mean that you could travel an infinite amount in any direction and never find "the edge" (since there is no edge) but you may find yourself returning to a place you've been before. The volume would be finite that way, but you don't have to worry about how space itself can even have an edge at all and what that might look like. But it isn't really known whether it's finite or not in the first place. It seems to be flat and isotropic, if it actually is flat and isotropic then it is infinite. But it might not be exactly flat, it might be curved less than could be measured so far. Or it might not be isotropic, or both.
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Assuming the Universe is infinite then the number of stars in said Universe must also be infinite and therefore the number of planets orbiting said stars, that can support human-like life, is infinite and therefore the chance of there being at least one other human-like civilisation is infinitely close to 1. Therefore, do you think they would all have developed a Windows 10 O/S?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Yes. No. Maybe.
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raddevus wrote:
science cannot deal with infinite.
The sum of all positive integer numbers from 1 to infinity is -1/12. Proven by science :)
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religion is a universal obsessional neurosis. ~Siegmund Freud basically he says crazy should be kept out of rational business.
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Apparently the number (-1/12) crops up in quantum physics so maybe not so philosophical after all.
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Apparently the number (-1/12) crops up in quantum physics so maybe not so philosophical after all.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Apparently the number (-1/12) crops up in quantum physics
I'd like to see that! Oh, wait, "crops up". That only exists in someones calculations they are doing. Yes, I'm trolling you. Just kidding. I understand what you mean, but do consider the Scientific Method[^], won't you? :-D
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raddevus wrote:
science cannot deal with infinite.
The sum of all positive integer numbers from 1 to infinity is -1/12. Proven by science :)
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Proven by science :)
For a specific value of "proven". :laugh: Ramanujan: Making sense of 1+2+3+... = -1/12 and Co. - YouTube[^]
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Possibly not. In which case, what is beyond the edges of this non-infinite universe? More universes? If so, what demarcates the edges of this one and the edges of the others? Can they not all be part of a larger universe? PS. My finite brain has just thrown a "Value out of range Exception"!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Maybe "space" is infinite, but the big-ball-of-wobbly-stuff we call "the Universe" isn't? :)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Fortunately the universe is not
So good to see a Scientist who is committed to making sense. The Universe cannot be infinite since no physical thing could ever be infinite. Infinite is simply a philosophical concept until you get to metaphysical. So, science cannot deal with infinite. I'm glad we've had this discussion.
raddevus wrote:
The Universe cannot be infinite
Then where does it end and what's on the other side?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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raddevus wrote:
science cannot deal with infinite.
The sum of all positive integer numbers from 1 to infinity is -1/12. Proven by science :)
Seems like that's an integer underflow problem -- you need a bigger processor.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Termi Nater wrote:
basically he says crazy should be kept out of rational business
I certainly hope he disincluded himself then. :laugh: Sincerely, Zigmound Fraud
heres the executive summary: [The Freud Museum ~ Education ~ Freud and Religion](https://www.freud.org.uk/education/topic/10573/subtopic/40000/) As far as I know he didn't quite disinclude himself, probably because clear cut conclusions are easy only for stupid people.
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Perhaps more realistically or at least more philosophically pleasing, a finite universe could still be unbounded, for example if it is a 3-ball or 3-torus or something like that. That would mean that you could travel an infinite amount in any direction and never find "the edge" (since there is no edge) but you may find yourself returning to a place you've been before. The volume would be finite that way, but you don't have to worry about how space itself can even have an edge at all and what that might look like. But it isn't really known whether it's finite or not in the first place. It seems to be flat and isotropic, if it actually is flat and isotropic then it is infinite. But it might not be exactly flat, it might be curved less than could be measured so far. Or it might not be isotropic, or both.
My theory: The universe is like an expanding balloon with everything that currently exists sitting on the surface. Heavy objects like black holes, stars, and planets sink into the surface warping space-time to create gravity. If you could travel at a rate faster than expansion, you would eventually come back around to the starting point. The interior of the balloon is the past.
